1
00:00:30,569 --> 00:00:07,000
[Music]

2
00:00:33,299 --> 00:00:30,579
hello and welcome to the show I'm Martin

3
00:00:35,310 --> 00:00:33,309
Willis your host and I don't know why

4
00:00:38,490 --> 00:00:35,320
I'm in a great mood today I haven't

5
00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:38,500
figured out why but I just am our guest

6
00:00:46,170 --> 00:00:42,370
today is Steve Ward now actually he is

7
00:00:48,780 --> 00:00:46,180
known as switchblade on Mac Maloney's

8
00:00:49,980 --> 00:00:48,790
show and that's how I talked to him the

9
00:00:51,660 --> 00:00:49,990
first time and I thought wow this guy's

10
00:00:54,900 --> 00:00:51,670
really knowledgeable so I gotta get him

11
00:00:57,210 --> 00:00:54,910
on my show some time and then I got a

12
00:00:59,430 --> 00:00:57,220
little nudge from a friend that listens

13
00:01:02,280 --> 00:00:59,440
to the show out in San Rafael California

14
00:01:04,679 --> 00:01:02,290
and said hey you ought to have Steve

15
00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:04,689
Ward on and I said oh yeah you reminded

16
00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:06,610
me and next thing you know Steve is on

17
00:01:08,580 --> 00:01:08,170
the show that was only like a few weeks

18
00:01:10,530 --> 00:01:08,590
ago

19
00:01:13,530 --> 00:01:10,540
and he said he was available and here he

20
00:01:16,950 --> 00:01:13,540
is and before that I have Alejandro

21
00:01:18,270 --> 00:01:16,960
Rojas with the news coming up in just a

22
00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:18,280
second here I just want to thank

23
00:01:22,410 --> 00:01:20,490
everyone that helps support the show and

24
00:01:24,060 --> 00:01:22,420
for all the people behind the scenes

25
00:01:26,930 --> 00:01:24,070
helping out with the show I appreciate

26
00:01:29,430 --> 00:01:26,940
that too we also have a blogger named

27
00:01:32,990 --> 00:01:29,440
Charles leer so you can go over to our

28
00:01:35,190 --> 00:01:33,000
website we have a new blog up there and

29
00:01:38,090 --> 00:01:35,200
he's been putting them out about once a

30
00:01:40,830 --> 00:01:38,100
week so check out podcast UFO calm and

31
00:01:43,969 --> 00:01:40,840
if anyone wants to support the show all

32
00:01:47,250 --> 00:01:43,979
the informations over there as well and

33
00:01:48,420 --> 00:01:47,260
Alejandro how are you doing I am good

34
00:01:52,109 --> 00:01:48,430
how are you my friend

35
00:01:56,190 --> 00:01:54,420
I think that yeah it must be that

36
00:01:58,260 --> 00:01:56,200
something like spring is in the air or

37
00:02:01,380 --> 00:01:58,270
something you need to cut that out

38
00:02:02,850 --> 00:02:01,390
I know I can't not to make generalities

39
00:02:04,620 --> 00:02:02,860
but is that weird that you're in a good

40
00:02:06,929 --> 00:02:04,630
mood because you have a Russian wife and

41
00:02:09,089 --> 00:02:06,939
I can in Eastern European it seems like

42
00:02:13,140 --> 00:02:09,099
you know it's your odd if you're you're

43
00:02:15,449 --> 00:02:13,150
happy I'm true I think that is true

44
00:02:18,509 --> 00:02:15,459
you're not supposed you know in the in

45
00:02:19,740 --> 00:02:18,519
those areas yeah yeah no no that you

46
00:02:22,500 --> 00:02:19,750
just makes you feel weird when you're

47
00:02:25,470 --> 00:02:22,510
happy you can't be happy no mmm then you

48
00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:25,480
won't try to figure out a way to get

49
00:02:31,020 --> 00:02:29,050
things if you're happy you know that's

50
00:02:33,630 --> 00:02:31,030
that's what they do interesting

51
00:02:34,860 --> 00:02:33,640
interesting well you better cut it out

52
00:02:36,890 --> 00:02:34,870
you're gonna get in trouble I know I'm

53
00:02:40,920 --> 00:02:36,900
glad she's not listening she never does

54
00:02:45,090 --> 00:02:40,930
I'm safe yeah so what's going on in the

55
00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:45,100
UFO world UFO world so a lot is going on

56
00:02:52,290 --> 00:02:47,050
of course last week we talked a little

57
00:02:54,870 --> 00:02:52,300
bit about the aapc the aerial anomalous

58
00:02:56,910 --> 00:02:54,880
phenomena conference that was held by

59
00:02:59,720 --> 00:02:56,920
the scientific Coalition for ufology yes

60
00:03:02,760 --> 00:02:59,730
you you know all of these acronyms but

61
00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:02,770
Billy Cox wrote a story recently Billy

62
00:03:11,190 --> 00:03:06,610
Cox does a blog called avoid it's for

63
00:03:12,750 --> 00:03:11,200
the Sarasota Herald Tribune and that

64
00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:12,760
they're kind of tough to find but of

65
00:03:15,660 --> 00:03:14,410
course you know all these new stories

66
00:03:19,260 --> 00:03:15,670
that I talked about you can find on the

67
00:03:20,490 --> 00:03:19,270
front page of open mind TV and at this

68
00:03:22,590 --> 00:03:20,500
is a great one the story's called

69
00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:22,600
drilling in that's why you can never

70
00:03:26,430 --> 00:03:24,370
find his stories because they never have

71
00:03:27,810 --> 00:03:26,440
UFO in them and I'm not sure how he

72
00:03:29,940 --> 00:03:27,820
creates titles that would be something

73
00:03:31,590 --> 00:03:29,950
great to ask him but he's great I mean I

74
00:03:33,570 --> 00:03:31,600
love Billy stuff so if you're not

75
00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:33,580
following the d'void block you really

76
00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:35,890
need to like he says he's been doing

77
00:03:39,750 --> 00:03:37,330
this year for years and he says he's

78
00:03:41,340 --> 00:03:39,760
like the lone you know mainstream

79
00:03:42,750 --> 00:03:41,350
journalists bloggers out there writing

80
00:03:45,870 --> 00:03:42,760
about this stuff and for a while he was

81
00:03:50,370 --> 00:03:45,880
now there's some more but he was at that

82
00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:50,380
AAPC conference and he was able to write

83
00:03:55,980 --> 00:03:53,290
up a story just the other day about the

84
00:03:58,470 --> 00:03:55,990
presentation on the Nimet event so of

85
00:04:00,600 --> 00:03:58,480
course you've had Robert Powell on to

86
00:04:04,170 --> 00:04:00,610
talk about some of this but they have

87
00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:04,180
this 270 page report that's coming out

88
00:04:09,330 --> 00:04:06,850
years of Investigation of course Roberts

89
00:04:12,780 --> 00:04:09,340
been on this Robert a member of the SCU

90
00:04:14,790 --> 00:04:12,790
but he's been on this case for years

91
00:04:17,490 --> 00:04:14,800
even before we found out about it in the

92
00:04:20,460 --> 00:04:17,500
New York Times and so they finally

93
00:04:23,580 --> 00:04:20,470
released a report he did this report

94
00:04:25,830 --> 00:04:23,590
with Peter really Peter really is an

95
00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:25,840
engineer he used to work in the Silicon

96
00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:28,330
Valley since retired now he's interested

97
00:04:33,180 --> 00:04:29,770
in this phenomena but has been looking

98
00:04:35,310 --> 00:04:33,190
for a credible place he thus far has not

99
00:04:36,780 --> 00:04:35,320
felt he's found you know a credible

100
00:04:38,250 --> 00:04:36,790
organization to be honest that he would

101
00:04:40,469 --> 00:04:38,260
be able to join and do this sort of

102
00:04:42,330 --> 00:04:40,479
research so he's excited about it and

103
00:04:44,189 --> 00:04:42,340
sVU's excited to have him

104
00:04:46,770 --> 00:04:44,199
because in this report they do some

105
00:04:48,900 --> 00:04:46,780
really great work one of the things that

106
00:04:51,900 --> 00:04:48,910
Peter focused on is kind of estimating

107
00:04:54,450 --> 00:04:51,910
the speeds of the craft now he had to

108
00:04:56,219 --> 00:04:54,460
use anecdotal information they really

109
00:04:58,710 --> 00:04:56,229
didn't have any radar so they just had

110
00:05:00,450 --> 00:04:58,720
to say okay David flavor for instance

111
00:05:02,460 --> 00:05:00,460
the commander who said he was a jet

112
00:05:04,740 --> 00:05:02,470
pilot he's a command or a very important

113
00:05:07,020 --> 00:05:04,750
force and very capable credible person

114
00:05:09,780 --> 00:05:07,030
she says he saw the object at this point

115
00:05:10,350 --> 00:05:09,790
and then saw it at this point or radar

116
00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:10,360
cadet

117
00:05:14,580 --> 00:05:12,490
according to radar operators at this

118
00:05:16,740 --> 00:05:14,590
point and then you know at this silent

119
00:05:19,290 --> 00:05:16,750
was seen at this point so using that

120
00:05:22,770 --> 00:05:19,300
sort of data they were able able to

121
00:05:25,110 --> 00:05:22,780
estimate the ranges of speeds that this

122
00:05:26,900 --> 00:05:25,120
thing is gone on you know the velocities

123
00:05:30,090 --> 00:05:26,910
at this these things were traveling at

124
00:05:31,950 --> 00:05:30,100
but even their conservative estimates

125
00:05:35,219 --> 00:05:31,960
estimate these things going at least

126
00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:35,229
10,000 miles per hour experiencing huge

127
00:05:44,189 --> 00:05:39,970
g-forces of you know anywhere from 15 or

128
00:05:46,379 --> 00:05:44,199
16 up to 300 plus G 4 G's which of

129
00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:46,389
course that g-force is that one and what

130
00:05:50,190 --> 00:05:48,490
you're experiencing right now is 1g you

131
00:05:52,890 --> 00:05:50,200
know the gravity pulling you from the

132
00:05:56,270 --> 00:05:52,900
planet but when you're traveling fast

133
00:05:59,400 --> 00:05:56,280
you ik you experience you know greater

134
00:06:03,450 --> 00:05:59,410
g-forces now this is interesting

135
00:06:06,540 --> 00:06:03,460
eight or nine G's is really what about

136
00:06:08,460 --> 00:06:06,550
the most that a vehicle can take let

137
00:06:09,930 --> 00:06:08,470
alone a human being so a human can take

138
00:06:12,710 --> 00:06:09,940
that at a few seconds before they'll

139
00:06:15,450 --> 00:06:12,720
pass out so these are extremely fast

140
00:06:17,879 --> 00:06:15,460
accelerations that they're talking about

141
00:06:20,219 --> 00:06:17,889
and eight or nine Jesus as fast as an

142
00:06:22,650 --> 00:06:20,229
f-16 could go before it starts falling

143
00:06:25,650 --> 00:06:22,660
apart so it can't really pull those

144
00:06:28,980 --> 00:06:25,660
types of g-forces at a sustainable a

145
00:06:31,770 --> 00:06:28,990
period of time now to move these masses

146
00:06:33,690 --> 00:06:31,780
something the size of an F 60 or f-18

147
00:06:37,110 --> 00:06:33,700
which is what they're flying at these

148
00:06:39,870 --> 00:06:37,120
you note speeds it would take at the

149
00:06:43,860 --> 00:06:39,880
estimated gigawatts or the equivalent of

150
00:06:46,370 --> 00:06:43,870
two tons of TNT or in cases of like you

151
00:06:48,990 --> 00:06:46,380
know the equivalent of a nuclear nuclear

152
00:06:52,469 --> 00:06:49,000
explosion why is that important because

153
00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:52,479
when we see an expenditure of this sort

154
00:06:58,769 --> 00:06:56,289
of energy we see nuclear nuclear blast

155
00:07:00,629 --> 00:06:58,779
we see you know let's take a rocket like

156
00:07:03,540 --> 00:07:00,639
the Saturn 5 or something you see these

157
00:07:06,749 --> 00:07:03,550
huge engines and explosions that's what

158
00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:06,759
a rocket is a contained explosion so it

159
00:07:12,809 --> 00:07:09,490
takes you know of a huge week it's

160
00:07:15,269 --> 00:07:12,819
something that is observable so if this

161
00:07:19,260 --> 00:07:15,279
thing was able to generate and expend

162
00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:19,270
the sort of energy that was witnessed by

163
00:07:24,709 --> 00:07:22,210
you know the witnesses we don't know how

164
00:07:29,309 --> 00:07:24,719
that could be that's just not possible

165
00:07:31,049 --> 00:07:29,319
from how we understand physics so you

166
00:07:34,469 --> 00:07:31,059
know some of that's just kind of a

167
00:07:37,799 --> 00:07:34,479
little bit of what Billy Cox is getting

168
00:07:39,179 --> 00:07:37,809
into when he kind of goes over you know

169
00:07:41,129 --> 00:07:39,189
what they were doing and what they were

170
00:07:42,659 --> 00:07:41,139
looking at in their analysis now the

171
00:07:44,969 --> 00:07:42,669
full analysis it's going to be coming

172
00:07:48,209 --> 00:07:44,979
out in just the next few days

173
00:07:50,459 --> 00:07:48,219
along with witness testimony

174
00:07:53,429 --> 00:07:50,469
so they've talked to a lot of witnesses

175
00:07:54,839 --> 00:07:53,439
and we'll be able to hear audio and I

176
00:07:57,269 --> 00:07:54,849
see some of these witnesses talking

177
00:07:58,799 --> 00:07:57,279
about their experiences so it's gonna be

178
00:08:01,469 --> 00:07:58,809
really exciting when that report comes

179
00:08:03,659 --> 00:08:01,479
out but yeah this Billy Cox article I

180
00:08:05,249 --> 00:08:03,669
really like I think Billy's great he's

181
00:08:09,299 --> 00:08:05,259
someone to follow he always does a good

182
00:08:12,089 --> 00:08:09,309
job kind of you know their blog so often

183
00:08:14,129 --> 00:08:12,099
they are humorous he puts his own humor

184
00:08:14,969 --> 00:08:14,139
and perspective in there and he does a

185
00:08:17,519 --> 00:08:14,979
great job with that

186
00:08:19,589 --> 00:08:17,529
so highly recommend people want to check

187
00:08:21,899 --> 00:08:19,599
that out have you noticed in the last

188
00:08:25,079 --> 00:08:21,909
that just in the last few weeks has been

189
00:08:27,839 --> 00:08:25,089
I think two more witnesses from the

190
00:08:29,549 --> 00:08:27,849
Nimitz case that came forward yeah well

191
00:08:31,799 --> 00:08:29,559
when Roberts come report comes out

192
00:08:33,719 --> 00:08:31,809
they'll be even more so yes there have

193
00:08:36,659 --> 00:08:33,729
been and essentially you know if you've

194
00:08:39,300 --> 00:08:36,669
been following online there are these

195
00:08:41,490 --> 00:08:39,310
groups so for instance anybody who used

196
00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:41,500
to be on the USS Princeton that was the

197
00:08:49,350 --> 00:08:46,569
essentially the radar support ship that

198
00:08:51,660 --> 00:08:49,360
was supporting the USS Nimitz carrier

199
00:08:54,059 --> 00:08:51,670
and they're the ones who caught the

200
00:08:55,620 --> 00:08:54,069
objects on radar Kevin day one of the

201
00:08:58,259 --> 00:08:55,630
witnesses you've had him on you know

202
00:09:00,509 --> 00:08:58,269
what's working on that they have

203
00:09:02,579 --> 00:09:00,519
Facebook groups where they talk about

204
00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:02,589
this stuff or jet fighters keep in touch

205
00:09:08,429 --> 00:09:06,370
so over time and as this has been

206
00:09:10,110 --> 00:09:08,439
getting more attention it's not so much

207
00:09:11,670 --> 00:09:10,120
that they didn't know but they

208
00:09:14,010 --> 00:09:11,680
been conversing and more and more people

209
00:09:17,519 --> 00:09:14,020
seem to be feeling comfortable to talk

210
00:09:18,930 --> 00:09:17,529
to specific people and especially as you

211
00:09:21,300 --> 00:09:18,940
know some of these witnesses like david

212
00:09:22,950 --> 00:09:21,310
freiburger kevin day you know have good

213
00:09:24,690 --> 00:09:22,960
experiences with some of these people

214
00:09:26,100 --> 00:09:24,700
they're able to say well you know i

215
00:09:27,269 --> 00:09:26,110
definitely i would recommend you talk to

216
00:09:28,980 --> 00:09:27,279
these people don't talk to them they

217
00:09:30,570 --> 00:09:28,990
kind of creeped me out or i didn't have

218
00:09:32,910 --> 00:09:30,580
a good experience but here are some

219
00:09:35,370 --> 00:09:32,920
people like they've got a little I think

220
00:09:38,700 --> 00:09:35,380
they like talking to you from what I

221
00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:38,710
understand but and I can understand that

222
00:09:43,769 --> 00:09:41,050
you're a happy guy right just today at

223
00:09:45,750 --> 00:09:43,779
least today you know it's really kind of

224
00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:45,760
very strange about this case in general

225
00:09:49,980 --> 00:09:47,170
and I wonder if it's been addressed

226
00:09:55,680 --> 00:09:49,990
anywhere and that is that some people

227
00:09:59,490 --> 00:09:55,690
had to sign NDA's and and some did not

228
00:10:01,980 --> 00:09:59,500
so and you know Kevin day who was on the

229
00:10:04,260 --> 00:10:01,990
show you know that's it's pretty

230
00:10:06,870 --> 00:10:04,270
dramatic what he experienced and he was

231
00:10:09,570 --> 00:10:06,880
not even asked to not talk about it

232
00:10:13,560 --> 00:10:09,580
never mind sign something that's really

233
00:10:15,710 --> 00:10:13,570
bizarre I think it is well you know when

234
00:10:17,970 --> 00:10:15,720
it harkens back to for better or worse

235
00:10:19,560 --> 00:10:17,980
depending you know what people believe

236
00:10:22,650 --> 00:10:19,570
it's just kind of what we've heard over

237
00:10:24,449 --> 00:10:22,660
the years from military quit cases and

238
00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:24,459
military witnesses at least if you're

239
00:10:28,050 --> 00:10:26,050
someone who actually talks to these guys

240
00:10:31,190 --> 00:10:28,060
and doesn't kind of summarize and make

241
00:10:33,780 --> 00:10:31,200
assumption is that you know they're the

242
00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:33,790
military's not prepared for this sort of

243
00:10:38,130 --> 00:10:36,610
stuff there is no as we can hear from

244
00:10:40,290 --> 00:10:38,140
these witnesses and we've heard from

245
00:10:42,900 --> 00:10:40,300
these military witnesses across the

246
00:10:45,329 --> 00:10:42,910
board for many many years the same sort

247
00:10:48,269 --> 00:10:45,339
of story that when something like this

248
00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:48,279
happened everybody feels awkward and

249
00:10:53,100 --> 00:10:51,250
uncomfortable there are people making

250
00:10:54,930 --> 00:10:53,110
fun of people which you know some people

251
00:10:56,400 --> 00:10:54,940
got have gotten really upset about

252
00:10:58,620 --> 00:10:56,410
there's some people yelling at each

253
00:11:00,390 --> 00:10:58,630
other they're just there is no

254
00:11:02,940 --> 00:11:00,400
consistent pattern because no one knows

255
00:11:05,460 --> 00:11:02,950
how to deal with it and they don't have

256
00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:05,470
really a set of instructions even I

257
00:11:08,340 --> 00:11:06,970
think intelligence officers they don't

258
00:11:09,990 --> 00:11:08,350
know what they're supposed to do are

259
00:11:11,820 --> 00:11:10,000
they supposed to do something with it

260
00:11:13,560 --> 00:11:11,830
are they not so there's these

261
00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:13,570
inconsistencies because everybody's

262
00:11:16,710 --> 00:11:14,890
dealing with it the way they think

263
00:11:18,449 --> 00:11:16,720
they're supposed to or should or not

264
00:11:20,250 --> 00:11:18,459
deal with it because of course many of

265
00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:20,260
these things just get swept under the

266
00:11:23,970 --> 00:11:21,490
rug because they're I think you know

267
00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:23,980
they're like well we'll get made fun up

268
00:11:26,970 --> 00:11:25,450
don't really have any instructions on

269
00:11:28,410 --> 00:11:26,980
how to deal with this so I'm not gonna

270
00:11:30,210 --> 00:11:28,420
deal with this I'm gonna sweep this

271
00:11:31,970 --> 00:11:30,220
under the rug that's the most common

272
00:11:34,890 --> 00:11:31,980
thing we hear from military witnesses

273
00:11:36,300 --> 00:11:34,900
everybody else just didn't pay attention

274
00:11:39,660 --> 00:11:36,310
or they told me to sweep it under the

275
00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:39,670
rug so I think that you know all of

276
00:11:42,930 --> 00:11:41,530
these inconsistencies and everything

277
00:11:45,390 --> 00:11:42,940
that we see and all of the these

278
00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:45,400
difficulties these witness witnesses had

279
00:11:48,870 --> 00:11:47,290
it's kind of nice now they almost have

280
00:11:49,380 --> 00:11:48,880
the support group like they've never had

281
00:11:51,210 --> 00:11:49,390
before

282
00:11:52,650 --> 00:11:51,220
and which is making them more

283
00:11:56,010 --> 00:11:52,660
comfortable to come out and speak I

284
00:11:58,050 --> 00:11:56,020
think but we see yeah just the confusion

285
00:12:01,050 --> 00:11:58,060
that the confusion nobody knows what to

286
00:12:03,470 --> 00:12:01,060
do with it even though what's very very

287
00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:03,480
interesting is these guys are all very

288
00:12:07,070 --> 00:12:05,290
convinced that you know what they

289
00:12:09,870 --> 00:12:07,080
experienced was something unusual

290
00:12:11,700 --> 00:12:09,880
something that was not ours and it makes

291
00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:11,710
them think what else is going on out

292
00:12:15,750 --> 00:12:14,170
there and what's going to be great is

293
00:12:18,210 --> 00:12:15,760
this History Channel show when it comes

294
00:12:21,030 --> 00:12:18,220
up now I I don't think you know people

295
00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:21,040
when Lou Elizondo let's say says we I've

296
00:12:25,500 --> 00:12:23,410
got more UFO disclosure to share with

297
00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:25,510
you all I'm trying to get more and we'll

298
00:12:29,010 --> 00:12:27,130
have more in the History Channel show a

299
00:12:30,510 --> 00:12:29,020
lot of people in the UFO community are

300
00:12:32,250 --> 00:12:30,520
like oh he's finally going to show us

301
00:12:34,410 --> 00:12:32,260
the aliens or tell us what happened at

302
00:12:37,190 --> 00:12:34,420
Roswell know what they're talking about

303
00:12:40,500 --> 00:12:37,200
is is this sort of data that they've

304
00:12:43,020 --> 00:12:40,510
achieved you know to us or to some

305
00:12:44,670 --> 00:12:43,030
people you know that an alien body is is

306
00:12:46,350 --> 00:12:44,680
what's exciting to these guys it's

307
00:12:48,170 --> 00:12:46,360
exciting that they had experiences with

308
00:12:50,190 --> 00:12:48,180
technology beyond our own and that is

309
00:12:51,990 --> 00:12:50,200
extremely important that's a type of

310
00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:52,000
data and information we're gonna see and

311
00:12:55,860 --> 00:12:54,010
from what I understand we're gonna have

312
00:12:57,900 --> 00:12:55,870
more information about Tic Tacs that

313
00:12:59,100 --> 00:12:57,910
other people saw these sing craft and

314
00:13:01,500 --> 00:12:59,110
we're gonna hear from that and

315
00:13:02,910 --> 00:13:01,510
especially you know and other some of

316
00:13:05,220 --> 00:13:02,920
these witnesses have talked about it

317
00:13:08,190 --> 00:13:05,230
these occurrences where there were

318
00:13:09,630 --> 00:13:08,200
multiple objects very very many of them

319
00:13:12,330 --> 00:13:09,640
so I think we're going to hear some

320
00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:12,340
really incredible stories and hear from

321
00:13:17,610 --> 00:13:15,610
witnesses related to those incredible

322
00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:17,620
cases when this History Channel show

323
00:13:22,110 --> 00:13:20,290
arrives now you may be like well I've

324
00:13:24,210 --> 00:13:22,120
heard about you know UFOs and Jets

325
00:13:26,190 --> 00:13:24,220
chasing UFOs that's not exciting to me

326
00:13:28,740 --> 00:13:26,200
well that's exciting to a lot of people

327
00:13:30,390 --> 00:13:28,750
into the mainstream especially witnesses

328
00:13:32,310 --> 00:13:30,400
so don't expect you know that they're

329
00:13:34,020 --> 00:13:32,320
gonna be like carting out an alien body

330
00:13:36,630 --> 00:13:34,030
and saying look there's Joe we've been

331
00:13:37,769 --> 00:13:36,640
working with Joe for you know 20 years

332
00:13:39,569 --> 00:13:37,779
he's an alien from

333
00:13:40,410 --> 00:13:39,579
reticulate that's not the type of thing

334
00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:40,420
they're talking about they're talking

335
00:13:44,879 --> 00:13:42,569
about you know credible witnesses

336
00:13:47,610 --> 00:13:44,889
discussing their credible experiences

337
00:13:50,999 --> 00:13:47,620
and hopefully some hard data like some

338
00:13:54,179 --> 00:13:51,009
radar information or some analysis of

339
00:13:56,489 --> 00:13:54,189
materials yeah yeah even that alone

340
00:13:59,069 --> 00:13:56,499
analysis of material that can't be

341
00:14:01,679 --> 00:13:59,079
explained that's exciting enough not not

342
00:14:03,619 --> 00:14:01,689
that it's any you know solid evidence

343
00:14:06,059 --> 00:14:03,629
that it's it was created by

344
00:14:08,939 --> 00:14:06,069
extraterrestrial intelligence but still

345
00:14:10,949 --> 00:14:08,949
it's it's it's fascinating anyway yeah

346
00:14:12,629 --> 00:14:10,959
it's a conversation at another level

347
00:14:14,699 --> 00:14:12,639
where these are a group of people that

348
00:14:17,220 --> 00:14:14,709
can challenge mainstream science if they

349
00:14:19,230 --> 00:14:17,230
come out and say hey this is what we

350
00:14:21,299 --> 00:14:19,240
found we believe it's anomalous

351
00:14:23,069 --> 00:14:21,309
now mainstream science it's kind of

352
00:14:25,439 --> 00:14:23,079
incumbent upon them to answer them

353
00:14:27,030 --> 00:14:25,449
whereas the lonely UFO researcher out

354
00:14:29,220 --> 00:14:27,040
there who may be able to have raised

355
00:14:30,989 --> 00:14:29,230
some funds to have an analysis done

356
00:14:34,519 --> 00:14:30,999
isn't really gonna get that attention

357
00:14:38,460 --> 00:14:34,529
nobody's gonna really care to address

358
00:14:40,110 --> 00:14:38,470
and their claims but you know we've got

359
00:14:42,269 --> 00:14:40,120
this whole thing's been brought to a new

360
00:14:43,559 --> 00:14:42,279
level that makes this all very exciting

361
00:14:46,139 --> 00:14:43,569
yeah excellent

362
00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:46,149
alright Alejandro thanks so much mm-hmm

363
00:14:52,999 --> 00:14:48,970
thank you okay and we'll see you next

364
00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:53,009
week right see you next week all right

365
00:14:58,860 --> 00:14:56,050
thank you and talk to you later yeah bye

366
00:15:02,639 --> 00:14:58,870
bye all right everyone our guest our

367
00:15:06,809 --> 00:15:02,649
guest Steve Ward aka switchblade over at

368
00:15:10,350 --> 00:15:06,819
Mack Maloney's show military what

369
00:15:12,329 --> 00:15:10,360
x-files over there we've had we've done

370
00:15:16,049 --> 00:15:12,339
some in studio shows there and I got to

371
00:15:19,189 --> 00:15:16,059
talk to Steve and he grew up in Michigan

372
00:15:22,410 --> 00:15:19,199
and he was there during the flat back in

373
00:15:25,110 --> 00:15:22,420
1966 that sparked a zing interest and

374
00:15:27,179 --> 00:15:25,120
then not too far away from there was the

375
00:15:29,429 --> 00:15:27,189
Mothman so we we might get a little off

376
00:15:31,710 --> 00:15:29,439
the UFO topic here and there tonight but

377
00:15:34,169 --> 00:15:31,720
we'll still have a good conversation and

378
00:15:35,249 --> 00:15:34,179
welcome to the show Steve it's great to

379
00:15:39,059 --> 00:15:35,259
be here thanks for having me

380
00:15:41,699 --> 00:15:39,069
yeah so how did Mack find you anyway I'm

381
00:15:45,299 --> 00:15:41,709
are you just someone that called into

382
00:15:47,699 --> 00:15:45,309
the show one sir no he was a fan of his

383
00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:47,709
wingman books for a long time oh and I

384
00:15:51,970 --> 00:15:49,250
even wrote Mack

385
00:15:55,590 --> 00:15:51,980
fan letter eons ago way before the radio

386
00:15:58,480 --> 00:15:55,600
gigs and I actually got a response but

387
00:16:01,360 --> 00:15:58,490
we were connected on Facebook and I

388
00:16:03,250 --> 00:16:01,370
think what happened was I I attend the

389
00:16:04,900 --> 00:16:03,260
Mothman festival and it post a lot of

390
00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:04,910
stuff about the Mothman and paranormal

391
00:16:09,010 --> 00:16:07,370
in general I think Mac must have seen

392
00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:09,020
that I I invited him to the Mothman

393
00:16:13,750 --> 00:16:10,610
festival one time you know the way you

394
00:16:17,020 --> 00:16:13,760
can invite people to various festivals

395
00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:17,030
and so forth and he must have seen my

396
00:16:21,940 --> 00:16:19,370
posts on the Mothman because one time he

397
00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:21,950
just asked me if I would come on and

398
00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:24,170
talk about John keel and the Mothman

399
00:16:31,090 --> 00:16:28,370
Prophecies and we did that and we did a

400
00:16:33,940 --> 00:16:31,100
couple segments and then he started to

401
00:16:35,350 --> 00:16:33,950
have me come back as correspondent and

402
00:16:38,140 --> 00:16:35,360
we've been doing it for about three

403
00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:38,150
years now yeah yeah he's he's a fun guy

404
00:16:42,850 --> 00:16:41,090
isn't he hell yeah the show's a blast

405
00:16:46,270 --> 00:16:42,860
too right right yeah those little

406
00:16:48,430 --> 00:16:46,280
sidekicks go in there so can you just go

407
00:16:51,910 --> 00:16:48,440
ahead and get give your overall

408
00:16:54,550 --> 00:16:51,920
background if you would and you know and

409
00:16:56,620 --> 00:16:54,560
and I know you went and you actually met

410
00:16:59,290 --> 00:16:56,630
ray Stanford who calls in the show quite

411
00:17:02,350 --> 00:16:59,300
often and has been on the show a number

412
00:17:06,970 --> 00:17:02,360
of times as well but you also met J

413
00:17:08,890 --> 00:17:06,980
Allen Hynek and back in 1976 that move

414
00:17:12,850 --> 00:17:08,900
MUFON event was it something like that

415
00:17:15,670 --> 00:17:12,860
yeah it was a the MUFON symposium for

416
00:17:17,740 --> 00:17:15,680
1976 and they held it in an arbor

417
00:17:19,660 --> 00:17:17,750
michigan and the reason they did was

418
00:17:22,079 --> 00:17:19,670
because it was they were looking back

419
00:17:26,230 --> 00:17:22,089
ten years before it was it was March of

420
00:17:29,170 --> 00:17:26,240
1966 when the wave of sightings and

421
00:17:32,260 --> 00:17:29,180
landings took place in well they're kind

422
00:17:35,620 --> 00:17:32,270
of in my backyard Ann Arbor Michigan

423
00:17:38,260 --> 00:17:35,630
Dexter Hillsdale and that was the the

424
00:17:40,870 --> 00:17:38,270
time when dr. Hynek he was still

425
00:17:43,810 --> 00:17:40,880
attached to Project Blue Book but he was

426
00:17:46,150 --> 00:17:43,820
soon to to leave Blue Book and start the

427
00:17:48,730 --> 00:17:46,160
Center for UFO studies in Evanston

428
00:17:51,460 --> 00:17:48,740
Illinois but that was the the time when

429
00:17:53,530 --> 00:17:51,470
he uttered the famous phrase that some

430
00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:53,540
of these sightings might be swamp yes

431
00:17:58,330 --> 00:17:55,970
and of course that's all the the press

432
00:18:00,400 --> 00:17:58,340
needed to hear and that solve the UFO

433
00:18:01,990 --> 00:18:00,410
mystery for all time and those were

434
00:18:03,139 --> 00:18:02,000
those are some sightings in Hillsdale

435
00:18:06,589 --> 00:18:03,149
Michigan in a swampy

436
00:18:08,149 --> 00:18:06,599
area and he he didn't believe you know

437
00:18:10,579 --> 00:18:08,159
he thought it was possible that some of

438
00:18:13,369 --> 00:18:10,589
them maybe swamp yes but he had be he

439
00:18:15,249 --> 00:18:13,379
had come to believe that there was you

440
00:18:18,229 --> 00:18:15,259
know something much more to this he was

441
00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:18,239
it was a colleague of dr. Jacques Vallee

442
00:18:24,889 --> 00:18:22,369
by this time as well who was the

443
00:18:26,989 --> 00:18:24,899
computer scientist and mathematician

444
00:18:30,859 --> 00:18:26,999
that came over from France

445
00:18:33,589 --> 00:18:30,869
and but anyway in in 1976 in Ann Arbor

446
00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:33,599
he is the name of his talk it was great

447
00:18:37,159 --> 00:18:36,450
because it was called swamp gas plus ten

448
00:18:39,589 --> 00:18:37,169
and Counting

449
00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:39,599
so he recounted he recounted those days

450
00:18:46,700 --> 00:18:42,450
and the and the chaos and the fiasco he

451
00:18:48,649 --> 00:18:46,710
had some great cartoons of the time like

452
00:18:50,599 --> 00:18:48,659
one where you know you see the little

453
00:18:53,329 --> 00:18:50,609
green man they've landed in their saucer

454
00:18:55,099 --> 00:18:53,339
they've got these horrible looking ray

455
00:18:57,049 --> 00:18:55,109
guns and everything and they've stopped

456
00:18:59,029 --> 00:18:57,059
an earth man on the street and they say

457
00:19:01,669 --> 00:18:59,039
take us to the one that called his swamp

458
00:19:04,940 --> 00:19:01,679
yes and so he had he had quite a bit of

459
00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:04,950
fun with it yeah and he by then like I

460
00:19:10,249 --> 00:19:06,210
say he had started the Center for UFO

461
00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:10,259
studies a very prestigious outfit and it

462
00:19:15,529 --> 00:19:12,450
was great you know to see him ray

463
00:19:16,879 --> 00:19:15,539
Stanford was talking about his project

464
00:19:19,999 --> 00:19:16,889
back then too called starlight

465
00:19:22,759 --> 00:19:20,009
international where he he kind of made

466
00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:22,769
his own like a UFO landing port and I

467
00:19:27,919 --> 00:19:24,450
thought it was kind of silly but he in

468
00:19:29,599 --> 00:19:27,929
fact he was getting great photographs of

469
00:19:31,190 --> 00:19:29,609
anomalous objects in the sky I think

470
00:19:33,950 --> 00:19:31,200
this isn't in Texas somewhere as I

471
00:19:36,799 --> 00:19:33,960
recall yeah and I I even met in the

472
00:19:39,379 --> 00:19:36,809
lobby I met gray Barker the the infamous

473
00:19:40,459 --> 00:19:39,389
gray Barker of Caesarea publications of

474
00:19:43,039 --> 00:19:40,469
course he was being far too

475
00:19:45,499 --> 00:19:43,049
controversial to speak at a mu fond

476
00:19:48,019 --> 00:19:45,509
symposium but I actually kind of

477
00:19:49,489 --> 00:19:48,029
cornered him and and it'll kind of a

478
00:19:53,389 --> 00:19:49,499
mini interview too because it was like

479
00:19:58,430 --> 00:19:53,399
my chance to talk to gray Barker Wow and

480
00:20:00,589 --> 00:19:58,440
and it was at 1966 the flap that took

481
00:20:04,700 --> 00:20:00,599
place back yes got you interested it

482
00:20:06,229 --> 00:20:04,710
wasn't he Martin March of 1966 yes and a

483
00:20:07,609 --> 00:20:06,239
lot of credible sightings I mean a lot

484
00:20:09,889 --> 00:20:07,619
of police officers were saying these

485
00:20:12,769 --> 00:20:09,899
things there was a landing on the the

486
00:20:15,319 --> 00:20:12,779
Frank mannor farm in Dexter and a lot of

487
00:20:16,850 --> 00:20:15,329
people witnessed that so and of course

488
00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:16,860
the the the news media

489
00:20:22,220 --> 00:20:19,170
reported on it they are always a little

490
00:20:23,930 --> 00:20:22,230
bit tongue-in-cheek but yeah I was only

491
00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:23,940
in junior high at the time so I I

492
00:20:30,350 --> 00:20:27,330
couldn't play UFO investigator but it

493
00:20:34,610 --> 00:20:30,360
was a pretty exciting time yeah yeah and

494
00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:34,620
how long did that did that flap last I

495
00:20:39,740 --> 00:20:37,410
think it lasted a few months now it was

496
00:20:42,260 --> 00:20:39,750
it wasn't just restricted to that area

497
00:20:43,820 --> 00:20:42,270
was all over in the Midwest and as if I

498
00:20:46,610 --> 00:20:43,830
recall correctly there was another one

499
00:20:49,340 --> 00:20:46,620
that came up again in a couple more

500
00:20:50,450 --> 00:20:49,350
years but that was around the time of

501
00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:50,460
the I don't know if you remember the

502
00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:52,530
Dale spar citing the police officers

503
00:20:59,720 --> 00:20:55,530
that chased the the object across

504
00:21:01,460 --> 00:20:59,730
northern Ohio and the Blue Book got

505
00:21:02,870 --> 00:21:01,470
ahold of them the Air Force and they

506
00:21:05,780 --> 00:21:02,880
they made him look like a fool

507
00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:05,790
it was it was really bad he actually saw

508
00:21:11,030 --> 00:21:08,730
this thing take off and they told him

509
00:21:13,250 --> 00:21:11,040
that he chased the planet Venus okay so

510
00:21:14,390 --> 00:21:13,260
that was really kind of ruined his life

511
00:21:17,090 --> 00:21:14,400
at the time I don't know if he ever

512
00:21:18,740 --> 00:21:17,100
recovered but a lot a lot of things are

513
00:21:20,810 --> 00:21:18,750
going on like I say a lot of very

514
00:21:23,030 --> 00:21:20,820
credible people were seeing these things

515
00:21:26,120 --> 00:21:23,040
and this is more in the way of landings

516
00:21:27,530 --> 00:21:26,130
and so forth this was you know we

517
00:21:29,180 --> 00:21:27,540
weren't they weren't talking too much

518
00:21:31,310 --> 00:21:29,190
about abductions at that time that was

519
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:31,320
the Betty and Barney Hill incidents

520
00:21:34,190 --> 00:21:32,610
probably these the thing that really

521
00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:34,200
triggered that of course these things

522
00:21:38,780 --> 00:21:35,970
have been going on for a long time just

523
00:21:41,690 --> 00:21:38,790
hadn't been reported I guess I'm at the

524
00:21:43,310 --> 00:21:41,700
SCU conference they had recently in

525
00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:43,320
Alabama there was someone talking there

526
00:21:53,419 --> 00:21:48,570
about time and high-speed travel and all

527
00:21:56,650 --> 00:21:53,429
that and and he he said his theory was

528
00:21:59,120 --> 00:21:56,660
that on these flaps even though they may

529
00:22:02,840 --> 00:21:59,130
happen a couple of days apart it could

530
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:02,850
be up to 50 years apart for the for the

531
00:22:07,220 --> 00:22:05,010
passengers if there's any in the vehicle

532
00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:07,230
which is another mind bender you know to

533
00:22:12,140 --> 00:22:09,690
add to the whole the whole speculation

534
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:12,150
of well it it's truly really you know

535
00:22:16,100 --> 00:22:14,010
the bottom line is we really don't know

536
00:22:18,830 --> 00:22:16,110
what the heck is going on right I think

537
00:22:20,120 --> 00:22:18,840
we have made some progress but there's

538
00:22:21,919 --> 00:22:20,130
another thing to consider

539
00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:21,929
I've heard people over the years say

540
00:22:25,669 --> 00:22:23,730
that well you know we don't hear much

541
00:22:27,350 --> 00:22:25,679
about UFOs these days they must have

542
00:22:29,630 --> 00:22:27,360
either all gone back to their home

543
00:22:30,210 --> 00:22:29,640
planet or or you know people have

544
00:22:31,830 --> 00:22:30,220
suddenly

545
00:22:34,230 --> 00:22:31,840
gained their mental health or something

546
00:22:36,149 --> 00:22:34,240
but I don't know if you were familiar

547
00:22:37,890 --> 00:22:36,159
with a there was a great resource that

548
00:22:41,430 --> 00:22:37,900
isn't there anymore but it was called

549
00:22:43,289 --> 00:22:41,440
the UFO news clipping service hmm and it

550
00:22:46,620 --> 00:22:43,299
was published every month I think

551
00:22:48,299 --> 00:22:46,630
Lucius Farish out of Arkansas I think

552
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:48,309
was the first one to publish it anyway

553
00:22:54,930 --> 00:22:52,690
for $5.00 a month he would he subscribed

554
00:22:57,720 --> 00:22:54,940
to all kinds of clipping services so he

555
00:22:59,970 --> 00:22:57,730
would gather all these these UFO reports

556
00:23:02,130 --> 00:22:59,980
from you know predominantly the US but

557
00:23:05,430 --> 00:23:02,140
also all over the world and even had a

558
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:05,440
four dianna section and what what you

559
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:07,210
would find out if you subscribe to that

560
00:23:12,060 --> 00:23:10,090
that while you know early on the

561
00:23:13,799 --> 00:23:12,070
mainstream media did cover some of these

562
00:23:15,360 --> 00:23:13,809
things and they do occasionally I mean

563
00:23:18,360 --> 00:23:15,370
we had Betty and Barney Hill

564
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:18,370
we had the Pascagoula incident we had

565
00:23:22,919 --> 00:23:20,770
the coin helicopter incident so and

566
00:23:25,220 --> 00:23:22,929
O'Hare and more recently in Stevensville

567
00:23:27,690 --> 00:23:25,230
but there's these huge gaps in between

568
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:27,700
but if you were to subscribe to this

569
00:23:31,830 --> 00:23:30,010
clip a clipping service you would find

570
00:23:34,409 --> 00:23:31,840
out that these reports are going on all

571
00:23:36,210 --> 00:23:34,419
the time but they're usually don't get

572
00:23:38,340 --> 00:23:36,220
any further than their local newspaper

573
00:23:41,310 --> 00:23:38,350
hmm very very celebrant of the wire

574
00:23:43,890 --> 00:23:41,320
services pick it up so the activity has

575
00:23:46,620 --> 00:23:43,900
never really stopped well and that's

576
00:23:49,289 --> 00:23:46,630
that's interesting now it's up you can

577
00:23:50,940 --> 00:23:49,299
put on a Google Alert on to do basically

578
00:23:54,570 --> 00:23:50,950
the same thing as a clipping service

579
00:23:56,220 --> 00:23:54,580
right yeah what yeah so we think so I

580
00:24:01,110 --> 00:23:56,230
don't know how much I guess I guess a

581
00:24:03,419 --> 00:24:01,120
lot of that would be catalog and being

582
00:24:05,190 --> 00:24:03,429
able to find on the on the internet yeah

583
00:24:06,990 --> 00:24:05,200
on the internet only and I'm not talking

584
00:24:08,789 --> 00:24:07,000
about newspapers and I wonder if that

585
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:08,799
still happens I wonder if there's still

586
00:24:14,279 --> 00:24:11,530
like local newspapers you know in

587
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:14,289
different regions that report it report

588
00:24:19,500 --> 00:24:16,330
a UFO and it never goes anywhere online

589
00:24:21,510 --> 00:24:19,510
you know I wonder if that happens and

590
00:24:23,430 --> 00:24:21,520
how many people still don't you know I'm

591
00:24:26,370 --> 00:24:23,440
not sure that I would report something

592
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:26,380
to a to any agency you know I don't I

593
00:24:31,159 --> 00:24:27,850
don't need any grief I mean I might go

594
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:31,169
to oh who's the gentleman Peter

595
00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:34,690
Davenport yes I might go to him but I

596
00:24:39,060 --> 00:24:36,850
certainly wouldn't call my local news

597
00:24:39,770 --> 00:24:39,070
and tell them that I'd seen something in

598
00:24:42,899 --> 00:24:39,780
the sky

599
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:42,909
well why because you think that you get

600
00:24:46,020 --> 00:24:44,050
hassled basically

601
00:24:47,700 --> 00:24:46,030
well yeah I took that it won't go

602
00:24:52,170 --> 00:24:47,710
anywhere it won't it won't hit a

603
00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:52,180
database that means anything but yeah

604
00:25:00,120 --> 00:24:56,170
you know a few months ago I my car broke

605
00:25:01,950 --> 00:25:00,130
down and so I you know I've got I've got

606
00:25:02,430 --> 00:25:01,960
a couple of Mothman stickers on my

607
00:25:04,770 --> 00:25:02,440
bumper

608
00:25:06,390 --> 00:25:04,780
I'm afraid I'm that kind of guy well

609
00:25:08,310 --> 00:25:06,400
then the tow truck guy pulls up and he

610
00:25:10,260 --> 00:25:08,320
looks at that and he reads him but he

611
00:25:12,990 --> 00:25:10,270
says well you know I had some

612
00:25:14,430 --> 00:25:13,000
experiences so we're driving back and he

613
00:25:17,580 --> 00:25:14,440
tells me he was in the military

614
00:25:19,740 --> 00:25:17,590
he's in a base I think in Alabama he and

615
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:19,750
his friend were out on a patrol they saw

616
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:22,570
a strange-looking cryptid on all fours

617
00:25:28,170 --> 00:25:24,970
hairless cut right in front of her car

618
00:25:29,610 --> 00:25:28,180
and run into the woods and they went

619
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:29,620
they were you know they're winning so

620
00:25:32,910 --> 00:25:31,450
far his buddies stayed in the car he

621
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:32,920
went into the woods a little bit but

622
00:25:36,540 --> 00:25:34,690
thought no I'm not going any further I

623
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:36,550
then he told me about a couple other

624
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:39,250
paranormal experiences he had so I get

625
00:25:43,020 --> 00:25:41,170
back to the dealer the guy that has

626
00:25:45,030 --> 00:25:43,030
fixed my car before and he knows he's

627
00:25:46,590 --> 00:25:45,040
seen the t-shirts I wear so everybody

628
00:25:48,690 --> 00:25:46,600
knows that I'm one of those guys and

629
00:25:50,940 --> 00:25:48,700
then he says to me he says you know did

630
00:25:53,550 --> 00:25:50,950
I ever tell you about the UFO I saw it

631
00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:53,560
was north of Detroit the country and he

632
00:25:58,710 --> 00:25:56,050
tells me about this classic flying

633
00:26:00,360 --> 00:25:58,720
saucer UFO he sees it on a two-lane out

634
00:26:01,950 --> 00:26:00,370
in the middle of nowhere and they whip

635
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:01,960
around to try and get another look at it

636
00:26:07,380 --> 00:26:05,050
and it's gone two weeks later I met my

637
00:26:08,790 --> 00:26:07,390
dentist and my dentist says what are you

638
00:26:10,290 --> 00:26:08,800
doing this summer and I said well you

639
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:10,300
know I'm speaking here and there on you

640
00:26:14,460 --> 00:26:12,010
know the weird stuff UFOs and Bigfoot he

641
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:14,470
said well you know I saw a UFO up north

642
00:26:20,370 --> 00:26:17,290
once and he tells me his story so it's

643
00:26:22,290 --> 00:26:20,380
it's it's like so many people have had

644
00:26:24,510 --> 00:26:22,300
it have you ever been at a dinner party

645
00:26:26,460 --> 00:26:24,520
or a restaurant people start talking

646
00:26:28,650 --> 00:26:26,470
about hauntings yeah a lot of people

647
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:28,660
have some kind of an experience it's

648
00:26:33,360 --> 00:26:32,050
it's very much like so many people now

649
00:26:35,790 --> 00:26:33,370
I'm not much of an experienced or

650
00:26:37,710 --> 00:26:35,800
unfortunately but so many people have

651
00:26:40,050 --> 00:26:37,720
these experiences and they just try to

652
00:26:43,380 --> 00:26:40,060
keep them close to the vest because of

653
00:26:45,270 --> 00:26:43,390
the ridicule factor and talks about the

654
00:26:47,580 --> 00:26:45,280
giggle factor yeah exactly yeah

655
00:26:50,250 --> 00:26:47,590
hey we're ready to go into break so hey

656
00:26:53,130 --> 00:26:50,260
hang in there everyone we'll be right

657
00:26:55,770 --> 00:26:53,140
back right after these message

658
00:26:58,139 --> 00:26:55,780
all right welcome back to the show my

659
00:27:00,929 --> 00:26:58,149
guest tonight is Steve Ward

660
00:27:02,249 --> 00:27:00,939
from Michigan or he didn't ask if he

661
00:27:04,379 --> 00:27:02,259
lives there now but that's where he grew

662
00:27:07,139 --> 00:27:04,389
up we were just before the break we were

663
00:27:09,809 --> 00:27:07,149
talking about how things happen at

664
00:27:12,569 --> 00:27:09,819
dinner parties and in see if I have to

665
00:27:16,979 --> 00:27:12,579
say I agree there's so many times that

666
00:27:19,409 --> 00:27:16,989
I've either worn a UFO t-shirt or

667
00:27:21,589 --> 00:27:19,419
something and someone will stare at it

668
00:27:24,299 --> 00:27:21,599
then start you know turn away and then

669
00:27:25,439 --> 00:27:24,309
get in a conversation and next thing you

670
00:27:29,429 --> 00:27:25,449
know they're telling me about this

671
00:27:30,959 --> 00:27:29,439
amazing UFO story it's it's really like

672
00:27:32,729 --> 00:27:30,969
you said people hold it close to the

673
00:27:34,829 --> 00:27:32,739
vest a lot of people and you know in the

674
00:27:37,169 --> 00:27:34,839
chat I was looking at just the you know

675
00:27:40,109 --> 00:27:37,179
during our break here you know someone

676
00:27:42,719 --> 00:27:40,119
posted on there that about 90% of the

677
00:27:45,479 --> 00:27:42,729
people do not report and I I agree I

678
00:27:46,399 --> 00:27:45,489
think that numbers fairly close one way

679
00:27:49,439 --> 00:27:46,409
or the other

680
00:27:51,979 --> 00:27:49,449
yeah isn't it interesting the way so

681
00:27:54,449 --> 00:27:51,989
many people have a wide variety

682
00:27:57,289 --> 00:27:54,459
experiences we could put under the broad

683
00:28:00,659 --> 00:27:57,299
blanket with the paranormal but just

684
00:28:02,729 --> 00:28:00,669
don't talk about it and well you know

685
00:28:04,019 --> 00:28:02,739
we're used to seeing if it ever comes up

686
00:28:06,899 --> 00:28:04,029
on the news a lot of times they'll say

687
00:28:08,519 --> 00:28:06,909
but were they the very end and with the

688
00:28:10,529 --> 00:28:08,529
they'll put it in a tongue-in-cheek way

689
00:28:12,059 --> 00:28:10,539
and they giggle about it a little little

690
00:28:14,069 --> 00:28:12,069
bit I mean I wonder I've always wondered

691
00:28:17,309 --> 00:28:14,079
what it what it says about the

692
00:28:20,729 --> 00:28:17,319
psychology of the well the main stone

693
00:28:22,649 --> 00:28:20,739
gets the mainstream media they just they

694
00:28:24,449 --> 00:28:22,659
just don't want to deal with it and I

695
00:28:25,919 --> 00:28:24,459
even if somebody I think some of those

696
00:28:28,919 --> 00:28:25,929
people have probably had their own

697
00:28:31,529 --> 00:28:28,929
experiences but God forbid they ever

698
00:28:33,929 --> 00:28:31,539
admit it to a colleague or talk about it

699
00:28:37,469 --> 00:28:33,939
on the air right well you know I think

700
00:28:39,629 --> 00:28:37,479
it's it's a little more I think it's

701
00:28:41,849 --> 00:28:39,639
changed a little bit within just the

702
00:28:46,289 --> 00:28:41,859
last year it just seems like there's a

703
00:28:47,789 --> 00:28:46,299
there's a easing of of that tension that

704
00:28:51,539 --> 00:28:47,799
comes up when people are talking about

705
00:28:53,009 --> 00:28:51,549
in public you know about about UFO

706
00:28:53,369 --> 00:28:53,019
sightings you know and I think you're

707
00:28:56,819 --> 00:28:53,379
right

708
00:29:00,359 --> 00:28:56,829
yeah and you know George Knapp has for

709
00:29:03,119 --> 00:29:00,369
years just just on it you know he's had

710
00:29:07,769 --> 00:29:03,129
the courage and to just go ahead and and

711
00:29:11,189 --> 00:29:07,779
and talk you know UFOs with on you know

712
00:29:11,990 --> 00:29:11,199
on TV and you know he still you know

713
00:29:14,660 --> 00:29:12,000
still

714
00:29:17,030 --> 00:29:14,670
the job and speaking because of him

715
00:29:18,890 --> 00:29:17,040
we've got the help get the story out

716
00:29:20,990 --> 00:29:18,900
about the so called skinwalker ranch

717
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:21,000
which is another one of these areas

718
00:29:25,610 --> 00:29:22,890
where you know all kinds of different

719
00:29:28,190 --> 00:29:25,620
phenomena seems to occur yeah yeah

720
00:29:30,620 --> 00:29:28,200
that's a fascinating story I'm and I'm

721
00:29:32,930 --> 00:29:30,630
attempting to get Georgia and I've tried

722
00:29:36,020 --> 00:29:32,940
to get them on this show for a number of

723
00:29:37,580 --> 00:29:36,030
years and and think I'm gonna be able to

724
00:29:39,860 --> 00:29:37,590
do that but it's just gonna have to be

725
00:29:42,170 --> 00:29:39,870
at a different time that the show will

726
00:29:45,650 --> 00:29:42,180
be live that's all you know like a

727
00:29:47,770 --> 00:29:45,660
pre-recorded show for a podcast row 4kg

728
00:29:50,630 --> 00:29:47,780
are a radio and other radio stations

729
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:50,640
dark-matter digital network all that so

730
00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:53,250
anyway I hope to get George on and

731
00:29:57,440 --> 00:29:55,290
that's one of the main topics I want to

732
00:29:59,360 --> 00:29:57,450
talk to him about his the skinwalker I

733
00:30:02,000 --> 00:29:59,370
read that book I'm not sure if you've

734
00:30:04,580 --> 00:30:02,010
read it it's fat oh yeah yeah

735
00:30:07,970 --> 00:30:04,590
yes yeah and that's one of your that's

736
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:07,980
one of your fascinations in this place

737
00:30:12,890 --> 00:30:09,690
is like skinwalker you want to talk a

738
00:30:14,830 --> 00:30:12,900
little bit about some yes well well the

739
00:30:18,500 --> 00:30:14,840
you know we talked a little bit about

740
00:30:21,710 --> 00:30:18,510
the March 1966 while the following

741
00:30:24,020 --> 00:30:21,720
November that's when the first not the

742
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:24,030
first but the big major sighting of the

743
00:30:30,530 --> 00:30:27,290
so called Mothman took place November 15

744
00:30:33,110 --> 00:30:30,540
1966 Point Pleasant West Virginia right

745
00:30:35,390 --> 00:30:33,120
on the near the Ohio River and Point

746
00:30:37,370 --> 00:30:35,400
Pleasant is another area where people

747
00:30:39,380 --> 00:30:37,380
were seeing all kinds of strange lights

748
00:30:41,210 --> 00:30:39,390
in the sky they were experiencing

749
00:30:43,220 --> 00:30:41,220
poltergeist phenomena and they were

750
00:30:47,630 --> 00:30:43,230
seeing this weird creature whatever it

751
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:47,640
was the skinwalker ranch sort of a

752
00:30:55,220 --> 00:30:50,250
three-ring circus of the paranormal they

753
00:30:59,450 --> 00:30:55,230
were had cattle mutilations giant

754
00:31:03,020 --> 00:30:59,460
triangles passing overhead creatures but

755
00:31:05,270 --> 00:31:03,030
seen in the night they supposedly one of

756
00:31:07,690 --> 00:31:05,280
the not they of course the Robert

757
00:31:10,670 --> 00:31:07,700
Bigelow owned the ranch for a while and

758
00:31:13,010 --> 00:31:10,680
long like the gun I I just I just got a

759
00:31:14,990 --> 00:31:13,020
wait I just kind of notice on my

760
00:31:17,420 --> 00:31:15,000
computer that they wanted to restart it

761
00:31:20,510 --> 00:31:17,430
so I said no no

762
00:31:23,210 --> 00:31:20,520
what am not a good time to restart my

763
00:31:24,830 --> 00:31:23,220
computer ok but yes they they had a

764
00:31:25,570 --> 00:31:24,840
scientific team there the National

765
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:25,580
Institute press

766
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:27,650
govenor science and the interesting

767
00:31:32,170 --> 00:31:29,690
thing there was that they I think they

768
00:31:34,990 --> 00:31:32,180
would call him Kelleher who co-wrote the

769
00:31:38,410 --> 00:31:35,000
book with George Knapp I think he said

770
00:31:41,950 --> 00:31:38,420
that they they cataloged about 200

771
00:31:45,850 --> 00:31:41,960
separate events paranormal activity from

772
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:45,860
orbs to UFOs to animal mutilations

773
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:49,970
whatever and nothing was repeated you

774
00:31:55,870 --> 00:31:52,250
know so how do you apply the scientific

775
00:31:58,660 --> 00:31:55,880
method to something like that right but

776
00:32:01,210 --> 00:31:58,670
but to me it seems like the when you

777
00:32:03,700 --> 00:32:01,220
look at these these areas it has to be a

778
00:32:05,940 --> 00:32:03,710
reason now John keel John keel of course

779
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:05,950
The Moth er of the Mothman Prophecies he

780
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:08,930
he wrote a book earlier called strange

781
00:32:12,730 --> 00:32:11,090
creatures from time and space and that's

782
00:32:15,340 --> 00:32:12,740
where he first introduced the idea of

783
00:32:18,610 --> 00:32:15,350
windows and window areas because he was

784
00:32:20,500 --> 00:32:18,620
trying to come to grips with the reason

785
00:32:24,550 --> 00:32:20,510
that you know it seems like a lot of

786
00:32:26,740 --> 00:32:24,560
these things Bigfoot even even UFO flaps

787
00:32:28,450 --> 00:32:26,750
they sort of pop in and pop out almost

788
00:32:30,820 --> 00:32:28,460
as if they're coming from somewhere else

789
00:32:33,430 --> 00:32:30,830
or manifesting from somewhere else and

790
00:32:35,740 --> 00:32:33,440
then dissipating or disappearing now he

791
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:35,750
was kind of vague it was later on when

792
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:38,810
he wrote UFOs operation Trojan horse

793
00:32:44,410 --> 00:32:42,170
that he got into some of his ideas about

794
00:32:46,030 --> 00:32:44,420
what might be going on and I have to say

795
00:32:47,740 --> 00:32:46,040
I didn't I really resisted that book

796
00:32:51,610 --> 00:32:47,750
when it came out because I was very

797
00:32:54,580 --> 00:32:51,620
happy with the straight ET hypothesis

798
00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:54,590
you know the the saucer lands the little

799
00:32:58,980 --> 00:32:56,690
silver suit being jumps out takes a soil

800
00:33:00,970 --> 00:32:58,990
sample and it takes off sometimes they

801
00:33:03,250 --> 00:33:00,980
would pick up somebody for an

802
00:33:05,890 --> 00:33:03,260
unscheduled medical exam or whatever but

803
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:05,900
you know that the framework was et but

804
00:33:11,530 --> 00:33:08,090
he he thought that he began to think

805
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:11,540
that the that's a facade that what you

806
00:33:15,610 --> 00:33:13,250
were looking at may not be that

807
00:33:19,090 --> 00:33:15,620
important he thought there may be a

808
00:33:22,030 --> 00:33:19,100
cosmic mechanism behind it and he called

809
00:33:25,810 --> 00:33:22,040
he borrowed a term from you know the the

810
00:33:28,330 --> 00:33:25,820
researcher Ivan Sanderson who was he he

811
00:33:30,550 --> 00:33:28,340
was known for writing the book the

812
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:30,560
abominable snowman legend come to life

813
00:33:34,750 --> 00:33:32,810
mm-hmm and he wrote some great books on

814
00:33:37,930 --> 00:33:34,760
UFOs in the Bermuda Triangle and so

815
00:33:38,950 --> 00:33:37,940
forth and he used a term called ultra

816
00:33:41,020 --> 00:33:38,960
terrestrial

817
00:33:42,820 --> 00:33:41,030
so Kela borrowed that and all he

818
00:33:44,650 --> 00:33:42,830
wouldn't be meant by that he said he

819
00:33:47,950 --> 00:33:44,660
usually he used it as a literary device

820
00:33:50,380 --> 00:33:47,960
and he said that he he thought that

821
00:33:53,530 --> 00:33:50,390
perhaps the we were looking in the wrong

822
00:33:56,650 --> 00:33:53,540
place to look at the ET hypothesis and

823
00:33:59,100 --> 00:33:56,660
he talked about now here's here's my one

824
00:34:03,370 --> 00:33:59,110
of my favorite words that these were

825
00:34:06,610 --> 00:34:03,380
transmogrification z' of energy and that

826
00:34:10,240 --> 00:34:06,620
there was some force or intelligence or

827
00:34:13,900 --> 00:34:10,250
something that would would transmogrify

828
00:34:16,150 --> 00:34:13,910
into these different shapes UFOs and

829
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:16,160
Bigfoot and so forth he thought the

830
00:34:21,670 --> 00:34:18,530
phenomena may be somewhat reflective and

831
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:21,680
and you know reflecting back what the

832
00:34:28,060 --> 00:34:24,890
what our expectations were and if you

833
00:34:30,460 --> 00:34:28,070
follow the the manifestation the sort of

834
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:30,470
history of the UFOs and strange lights

835
00:34:37,030 --> 00:34:34,130
in the sky you had in ancient times the

836
00:34:39,310 --> 00:34:37,040
Chinese called them dragon tracks in

837
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:39,320
another time period if you saw a strange

838
00:34:42,730 --> 00:34:41,090
light going through the sky well of

839
00:34:45,460 --> 00:34:42,740
course that was a witch carrying her

840
00:34:47,530 --> 00:34:45,470
lantern on a broom and then had the Foo

841
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:47,540
Fighters and so forth he thought that

842
00:34:52,810 --> 00:34:49,370
the thing that only thing that may be

843
00:34:55,720 --> 00:34:52,820
real were the lights themselves and that

844
00:34:57,100 --> 00:34:55,730
the facade or he didn't say they didn't

845
00:34:59,200 --> 00:34:57,110
think they were illusions because they

846
00:35:03,100 --> 00:34:59,210
were taking some kind of at least

847
00:35:05,470 --> 00:35:03,110
temporal physicality but so anyway now

848
00:35:07,870 --> 00:35:05,480
he didn't as time went on he didn't

849
00:35:10,030 --> 00:35:07,880
actually completely close the door to

850
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:10,040
the EEG hypothesis he just didn't think

851
00:35:14,410 --> 00:35:12,530
that it explained everything and I still

852
00:35:16,180 --> 00:35:14,420
tend to agree with that I think I think

853
00:35:19,450 --> 00:35:16,190
we're dealing with much more than one

854
00:35:22,030 --> 00:35:19,460
thing one one answer in other words yes

855
00:35:24,550 --> 00:35:22,040
uh kind of like Jacques Vallee I guess

856
00:35:28,210 --> 00:35:24,560
that's kind of hit along the lines of

857
00:35:29,890 --> 00:35:28,220
his thinking too and you know you're

858
00:35:34,030 --> 00:35:29,900
you're probably right

859
00:35:37,570 --> 00:35:34,040
it is it is fascinating when things

860
00:35:40,270 --> 00:35:37,580
appear and then just like you said you

861
00:35:42,010 --> 00:35:40,280
know vanish and it's not always you know

862
00:35:43,930 --> 00:35:42,020
you know some people that are talking

863
00:35:47,590 --> 00:35:43,940
about a sighting a UFO sighting in

864
00:35:49,450 --> 00:35:47,600
particular they don't always say that it

865
00:35:52,270 --> 00:35:49,460
took off sometimes they say it just

866
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:52,280
vanished you know in and that makes you

867
00:35:54,670 --> 00:35:52,610
think

868
00:35:57,820 --> 00:35:54,680
interdimensional what the heck or what

869
00:35:59,230 --> 00:35:57,830
what is it you know how did that how is

870
00:36:01,120 --> 00:35:59,240
that here and then it's not here

871
00:36:03,100 --> 00:36:01,130
you know and you know you mentioned go

872
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:03,110
ahead I'll go ahead okay the high

873
00:36:06,820 --> 00:36:04,970
strangeness areas you know we talked

874
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:06,830
about the skinwalker ranch I think Ted

875
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:09,170
Phyllis was investigating a place in

876
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:11,570
Missouri he called Marley woods the

877
00:36:16,990 --> 00:36:15,410
Bridgewater triangle the Bradshaw ranch

878
00:36:19,710 --> 00:36:17,000
near Sedona and so forth

879
00:36:22,980 --> 00:36:19,720
well if you go back to 1897 remember the

880
00:36:26,380 --> 00:36:22,990
reports of the the airship flap these

881
00:36:28,210 --> 00:36:26,390
huge majestic dirigible like craft that

882
00:36:31,690 --> 00:36:28,220
we're seeing all over the US and other

883
00:36:35,470 --> 00:36:31,700
parts of the world and there was one in

884
00:36:38,140 --> 00:36:35,480
a series of sightings in Ohio 1897 and I

885
00:36:41,530 --> 00:36:38,150
think this is a I remember about

886
00:36:43,210 --> 00:36:41,540
mid-april to mid-may and it was these

887
00:36:46,090 --> 00:36:43,220
sightings were kind of making a

888
00:36:48,070 --> 00:36:46,100
clockwise circle around Ohio and even

889
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:48,080
overlapping into West Virginia a little

890
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:50,810
bit well on the ground in Adams County

891
00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:54,650
where the circuit mount is people were

892
00:37:00,850 --> 00:36:56,770
seeing something they described as a

893
00:37:02,980 --> 00:37:00,860
gorilla or Wildman you know what it's a

894
00:37:05,860 --> 00:37:02,990
Bigfoot they're talking about they also

895
00:37:09,070 --> 00:37:05,870
were seeing in an in an area not too far

896
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:09,080
away a these large black cats these uh

897
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:10,850
which was kind of odd looking at had

898
00:37:17,530 --> 00:37:13,130
kind of a a large head and I think short

899
00:37:20,170 --> 00:37:17,540
legs and so it just reminded me of you

900
00:37:22,270 --> 00:37:20,180
know Stan Gordon give the research in in

901
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:22,280
has done the research in Pennsylvania

902
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:25,610
for years and in 73 and 74 he covered a

903
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:29,090
wide flap of strange UFO sightings as

904
00:37:35,290 --> 00:37:32,450
well as bigfoot-type creatures in the

905
00:37:37,090 --> 00:37:35,300
same vicinity so you know who knows

906
00:37:39,670 --> 00:37:37,100
what's going on or how they might really

907
00:37:41,650 --> 00:37:39,680
be connected and I'm not sure it's you

908
00:37:43,570 --> 00:37:41,660
know it's it may be too simple to say

909
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:43,580
that well the aliens are dropping off

910
00:37:47,770 --> 00:37:45,650
Bigfoot somehow I don't think that it

911
00:37:49,540 --> 00:37:47,780
really explains it but but these things

912
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:49,550
have been going on for a long time you

913
00:37:54,100 --> 00:37:52,370
know we can find instances where all

914
00:37:56,700 --> 00:37:54,110
these different types of phenomena

915
00:38:01,540 --> 00:37:56,710
congregate in the same place and time

916
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:01,550
yeah have you ever heard of Paul you

917
00:38:06,279 --> 00:38:06,050
know oh yes yeah he has uh yeah yes he

918
00:38:08,650 --> 00:38:06,289
has

919
00:38:11,199 --> 00:38:08,660
kind of a theory about this as well it's

920
00:38:13,199 --> 00:38:11,209
pretty interesting there's a

921
00:38:16,929 --> 00:38:13,209
relationship between everything which is

922
00:38:18,459 --> 00:38:16,939
you know another theory I mean that's

923
00:38:21,039 --> 00:38:18,469
all they are is theories and thoughts

924
00:38:24,279 --> 00:38:21,049
you know basically we were actually

925
00:38:26,079 --> 00:38:24,289
clueless well yes you know and just say

926
00:38:28,779 --> 00:38:26,089
yeah just one thing you'll never hear me

927
00:38:29,620 --> 00:38:28,789
say that I'm an expert yeah that that's

928
00:38:32,769 --> 00:38:29,630
not gonna happen

929
00:38:35,409 --> 00:38:32,779
yeah yeah but some people might call

930
00:38:38,079 --> 00:38:35,419
themselves that yeah absolutely yeah

931
00:38:42,789 --> 00:38:38,089
yeah no it's it's just a fascinating

932
00:38:44,319 --> 00:38:42,799
topic in general and so as far as you

933
00:38:45,699 --> 00:38:44,329
were you started to get into I think

934
00:38:47,769 --> 00:38:45,709
just before the break you started to get

935
00:38:49,209 --> 00:38:47,779
into math man or it might have been just

936
00:38:55,390 --> 00:38:49,219
a few minutes ago I can't remember

937
00:38:57,489 --> 00:38:55,400
exactly but so did you follow that that

938
00:39:01,059 --> 00:38:57,499
that case and what was happening and all

939
00:39:02,739 --> 00:39:01,069
that yes the you know of course it came

940
00:39:05,049 --> 00:39:02,749
over the wire services and went over the

941
00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:05,059
world that first sighting yeah chased

942
00:39:12,009 --> 00:39:10,130
two couples down route 62 and the final

943
00:39:13,569 --> 00:39:12,019
John keel because he would occasionally

944
00:39:15,579 --> 00:39:13,579
write about the Mothman and he was

945
00:39:18,039 --> 00:39:15,589
really the only one that knew that much

946
00:39:21,819 --> 00:39:18,049
about it to report it the Mothman was a

947
00:39:24,669 --> 00:39:21,829
it was a paradox it was what about seven

948
00:39:26,829 --> 00:39:24,679
feet tall dark in color the red glowing

949
00:39:28,779 --> 00:39:26,839
eyes didn't seem to be I shine it seemed

950
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:28,789
to be generating its own lights the

951
00:39:33,909 --> 00:39:31,130
wingspan was about ten feet which

952
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:33,919
probably isn't quite big enough to

953
00:39:38,890 --> 00:39:36,650
actually carry a body that that tall

954
00:39:42,489 --> 00:39:38,900
people would see it take off like a

955
00:39:44,439 --> 00:39:42,499
helicopter and not flap its wings there

956
00:39:46,029 --> 00:39:44,449
were even some close sightings that

957
00:39:48,039 --> 00:39:46,039
qu'il talked about in some lectures

958
00:39:50,589 --> 00:39:48,049
where people thought they heard some

959
00:39:53,679 --> 00:39:50,599
kind of a machinery or humming coming

960
00:39:56,199 --> 00:39:53,689
from it it was there's so many things

961
00:39:57,609 --> 00:39:56,209
that didn't make any sense it didn't

962
00:40:00,249 --> 00:39:57,619
make sense as a flesh-and-blood creature

963
00:40:02,319 --> 00:40:00,259
it doesn't neccessarily it's more like

964
00:40:03,299 --> 00:40:02,329
an apparition but it doesn't make sense

965
00:40:08,319 --> 00:40:03,309
there either

966
00:40:10,659 --> 00:40:08,329
and then you had all the strange UFO

967
00:40:11,919 --> 00:40:10,669
sightings in connection with it and of

968
00:40:14,380 --> 00:40:11,929
course it culminated with the bridge

969
00:40:17,140 --> 00:40:14,390
collapse which a lot of people think it

970
00:40:19,089 --> 00:40:17,150
caused directly or foretold and I I

971
00:40:19,720 --> 00:40:19,099
don't think so I don't know that it was

972
00:40:23,620 --> 00:40:19,730
a harbinger

973
00:40:25,750 --> 00:40:23,630
but it's it's just one of those things

974
00:40:27,460 --> 00:40:25,760
where you know maybe John Key will never

975
00:40:29,230 --> 00:40:27,470
solve the mystery people asked him what

976
00:40:30,940 --> 00:40:29,240
was the Mothman they figured he's the

977
00:40:32,859 --> 00:40:30,950
expert he should know it and he couldn't

978
00:40:36,190 --> 00:40:32,869
tell people what really happened again

979
00:40:37,870 --> 00:40:36,200
the expert says I had never heard that

980
00:40:40,750 --> 00:40:37,880
there was actually UFO sightings during

981
00:40:43,690 --> 00:40:40,760
that time as well oh yes they were just

982
00:40:45,070 --> 00:40:43,700
uh I in fact he'll saw there were so

983
00:40:48,070 --> 00:40:45,080
many of them he would go out with Mary

984
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:48,080
hyre who was a local reporter there and

985
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:50,570
they actually that there was the TNT

986
00:40:53,980 --> 00:40:52,010
area which is north of Point Pleasant

987
00:40:56,500 --> 00:40:53,990
that said they called it the TNT area

988
00:40:58,750 --> 00:40:56,510
because it was a munitions area during

989
00:41:01,840 --> 00:40:58,760
World War two it was a huge complex in

990
00:41:03,609 --> 00:41:01,850
fact I during the Mothman festival I'm

991
00:41:05,260 --> 00:41:03,619
one of the tour guides in the dreaded

992
00:41:07,210 --> 00:41:05,270
TNT area where they first saw the

993
00:41:10,570 --> 00:41:07,220
Mothman and a couple friends of mine

994
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:10,580
John and Tim Frick fly the Mothman over

995
00:41:14,260 --> 00:41:11,930
a certain part of the ride so you're

996
00:41:18,580 --> 00:41:14,270
guaranteed at least to see the Mothman

997
00:41:20,530 --> 00:41:18,590
it's it's a lot of fun but that was that

998
00:41:23,410 --> 00:41:20,540
was the area where with this this first

999
00:41:25,510 --> 00:41:23,420
major sighting took place but it was

1000
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:25,520
crowded when people thought the Mothman

1001
00:41:29,590 --> 00:41:27,410
was out there they were there hundreds

1002
00:41:31,030 --> 00:41:29,600
of people out there with loaded guns and

1003
00:41:33,460 --> 00:41:31,040
and you know good lord

1004
00:41:35,530 --> 00:41:33,470
so John keel and Mary hyre and some

1005
00:41:37,599 --> 00:41:35,540
other people would go down south of

1006
00:41:39,609 --> 00:41:37,609
there down to a place called Gallup poll

1007
00:41:41,349 --> 00:41:39,619
is ferry and out in the middle of

1008
00:41:43,990 --> 00:41:41,359
nowhere and it was a good observation

1009
00:41:46,060 --> 00:41:44,000
point because they saw all kinds of

1010
00:41:49,540 --> 00:41:46,070
strange lights go over healed even saw a

1011
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:49,550
really close-up sighting of above a

1012
00:41:54,250 --> 00:41:51,890
landing one time up a very bright object

1013
00:41:57,190 --> 00:41:54,260
but that's not the only thing they saw

1014
00:42:00,280 --> 00:41:57,200
there was one one night he saw these

1015
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:00,290
there was kind of like purple lights or

1016
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:04,010
blobs or whatever up in the sky and they

1017
00:42:07,750 --> 00:42:05,810
even came down and they circled him

1018
00:42:09,970 --> 00:42:07,760
almost like there was some kind of a

1019
00:42:12,450 --> 00:42:09,980
living creature or something like that

1020
00:42:15,490 --> 00:42:12,460
there there are people that believe that

1021
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:15,500
one aspect of the UFO phenomena is that

1022
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:16,850
we are actually dealing with some kind

1023
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:20,450
of living being or whatever that just

1024
00:42:26,050 --> 00:42:24,650
naturally exists in the sky but it was

1025
00:42:28,870 --> 00:42:26,060
there was so there were so many

1026
00:42:31,780 --> 00:42:28,880
different things that happened there he

1027
00:42:33,580 --> 00:42:31,790
was in contact with several different

1028
00:42:36,070 --> 00:42:33,590
people and different things going on

1029
00:42:38,860 --> 00:42:36,080
back in Long Island as well where he

1030
00:42:41,230 --> 00:42:38,870
lives in that area and all over the Ohio

1031
00:42:43,870 --> 00:42:41,240
Valley he was in contact with several

1032
00:42:45,340 --> 00:42:43,880
people that firmly believed that they

1033
00:42:47,590 --> 00:42:45,350
were in contact with some other

1034
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:47,600
intelligence and he called them the

1035
00:42:55,780 --> 00:42:53,570
silent contactees because they they they

1036
00:42:58,600 --> 00:42:55,790
didn't they firmly believed what was

1037
00:43:01,180 --> 00:42:58,610
going on was real they had no interest

1038
00:43:03,370 --> 00:43:01,190
at all in any publicity or trying to

1039
00:43:05,170 --> 00:43:03,380
convince anybody what was happening so

1040
00:43:06,460 --> 00:43:05,180
they would be a lot of it was like sort

1041
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:06,470
of like channeling where they were

1042
00:43:10,690 --> 00:43:08,450
getting these messages and so forth they

1043
00:43:12,850 --> 00:43:10,700
weren't necessarily you know seeing a

1044
00:43:15,670 --> 00:43:12,860
physical being and you know shaking

1045
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:15,680
hands with them but did note the Mothman

1046
00:43:21,310 --> 00:43:17,690
Prophecies is really a fascinating book

1047
00:43:22,810 --> 00:43:21,320
and you know Brent rains is writing a

1048
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:22,820
book on John keel that should be out

1049
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:24,410
this spring some time

1050
00:43:30,100 --> 00:43:27,650
Brent knew John for many years and it'll

1051
00:43:32,140 --> 00:43:30,110
deal a lot with it John keels early life

1052
00:43:38,410 --> 00:43:32,150
was fascinating - he was really a really

1053
00:43:41,020 --> 00:43:38,420
interesting guy but he's forgot where I

1054
00:43:43,690 --> 00:43:41,030
was going with that but the I guess yes

1055
00:43:45,220 --> 00:43:43,700
the Mothman book the people should know

1056
00:43:47,740 --> 00:43:45,230
that the Mothman Prophecies

1057
00:43:50,410 --> 00:43:47,750
that they cut the editors cut half of it

1058
00:43:54,070 --> 00:43:50,420
out before they published it they edited

1059
00:43:57,070 --> 00:43:54,080
it down now some of that was was saved

1060
00:44:00,370 --> 00:43:57,080
in the 8th tower about 2/3 of it but

1061
00:44:02,230 --> 00:44:00,380
John keel told Brent rains when some

1062
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:02,240
years ago he said if I had told

1063
00:44:06,820 --> 00:44:04,490
everything that happened in in that

1064
00:44:09,070 --> 00:44:06,830
during that time period it would have

1065
00:44:10,690 --> 00:44:09,080
easily filled six books and there's

1066
00:44:12,910 --> 00:44:10,700
something else some people should know

1067
00:44:15,610 --> 00:44:12,920
there are two other books out now called

1068
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:15,620
the big black out and the big

1069
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:17,930
breakthrough by John keel and what those

1070
00:44:22,540 --> 00:44:20,570
are are some resurrected notes that he

1071
00:44:25,510 --> 00:44:22,550
took during that time period some of

1072
00:44:26,290 --> 00:44:25,520
those notes became parts of the Mothman

1073
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:26,300
Prophecies

1074
00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:28,490
but you get you get a lot more detail

1075
00:44:31,990 --> 00:44:30,770
you get into his thinking and he's you

1076
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:32,000
know interviewing people and he's

1077
00:44:36,940 --> 00:44:34,450
questioning you know is this person

1078
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:36,950
credible can I believe what they're

1079
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:39,650
saying so it's a really great

1080
00:44:45,130 --> 00:44:41,690
supplements to the Mothman Prophecies

1081
00:44:48,720 --> 00:44:45,140
have you followed what has been

1082
00:44:52,810 --> 00:44:48,730
purported to be happening

1083
00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:52,820
regarding the moth Mothman sightings too

1084
00:44:58,450 --> 00:44:55,850
much I've heard some talks on it

1085
00:45:01,980 --> 00:44:58,460
some of them some of those reports seem

1086
00:45:05,470 --> 00:45:01,990
to be ringers some of them I know a

1087
00:45:08,860 --> 00:45:05,480
researcher that went and visited some of

1088
00:45:12,310 --> 00:45:08,870
those spots and some of the some of the

1089
00:45:14,740 --> 00:45:12,320
the areas you know are the descriptions

1090
00:45:17,500 --> 00:45:14,750
given don't match up so I think there's

1091
00:45:21,550 --> 00:45:17,510
a few ringers in there but on the other

1092
00:45:23,050 --> 00:45:21,560
hand she said this is Alison Jordan she

1093
00:45:25,510 --> 00:45:23,060
said that she's too found other other

1094
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:25,520
witnesses that are very credible now I

1095
00:45:30,370 --> 00:45:28,130
don't know how it breaks down but I'm

1096
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:30,380
also cautious when when people say you

1097
00:45:35,380 --> 00:45:32,690
know any kind of a winged creature they

1098
00:45:37,060 --> 00:45:35,390
want to call it the Mothman well I'd be

1099
00:45:39,580 --> 00:45:37,070
hesitant about that I'm not sure that

1100
00:45:43,350 --> 00:45:39,590
these I don't know what to call them

1101
00:45:46,690 --> 00:45:43,360
paranormal entities are that easily

1102
00:45:48,730 --> 00:45:46,700
cataloged you know you know if you go

1103
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:48,740
back to I think around World War one

1104
00:45:55,630 --> 00:45:51,410
people were seeing some kind of a large

1105
00:45:58,240 --> 00:45:55,640
bird man in the Ohio Valley along the

1106
00:46:01,240 --> 00:45:58,250
Elk River Kanawha River that they all

1107
00:46:04,240 --> 00:46:01,250
kind of empty into the Ohio they were

1108
00:46:06,250 --> 00:46:04,250
but a 10-foot wingspan human-like head

1109
00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:06,260
and they were freaking people out at the

1110
00:46:11,740 --> 00:46:09,170
time there was a sighting about three

1111
00:46:14,170 --> 00:46:11,750
years before the big Mothman sighting in

1112
00:46:17,350 --> 00:46:14,180
Kent England where this thing looked

1113
00:46:19,390 --> 00:46:17,360
very much like the Mothman very similar

1114
00:46:22,270 --> 00:46:19,400
but some kids coming back from a dance

1115
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:22,280
and Kent they saw some kind of a strange

1116
00:46:27,430 --> 00:46:24,650
light land behind a group of woods and

1117
00:46:29,670 --> 00:46:27,440
then out from it came to shuffling thing

1118
00:46:33,340 --> 00:46:29,680
that's it sounded like a that the

1119
00:46:35,170 --> 00:46:33,350
precursor to the Mothman so if it's very

1120
00:46:36,910 --> 00:46:35,180
very cautious and then you know Linda

1121
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:36,920
Godfrey Linda Godfrey who has done great

1122
00:46:44,140 --> 00:46:39,290
to research into the dog man phenomena

1123
00:46:46,300 --> 00:46:44,150
she lets see she talked about she

1124
00:46:48,670 --> 00:46:46,310
covered the so-called Wisconsin man

1125
00:46:51,220 --> 00:46:48,680
batch of a few years ago and that thing

1126
00:46:53,530 --> 00:46:51,230
was very different so there's all kinds

1127
00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:53,540
of winged in fact I wrote a chapter for

1128
00:46:58,630 --> 00:46:56,090
Timothy green Beckley yeah

1129
00:47:00,610 --> 00:46:58,640
edited a book called weird winged

1130
00:47:01,180 --> 00:47:00,620
wonders and and there I have a chapter

1131
00:47:05,620 --> 00:47:01,190
on

1132
00:47:07,839 --> 00:47:05,630
the Mothman festival there's some other

1133
00:47:09,819 --> 00:47:07,849
great contributions in there by I

1134
00:47:11,589 --> 00:47:09,829
believe Paul II knows in there and Brad

1135
00:47:14,789 --> 00:47:11,599
Steiger one of the last things he

1136
00:47:17,770 --> 00:47:14,799
contributed and it covers all kinds of

1137
00:47:20,829 --> 00:47:17,780
winged entities creatures and so forth

1138
00:47:23,020 --> 00:47:20,839
and the variety is amazing yeah yeah

1139
00:47:27,039 --> 00:47:23,030
well that whole cryptid thing is pretty

1140
00:47:30,549 --> 00:47:27,049
strange too and and and elusive and and

1141
00:47:32,589 --> 00:47:30,559
you know you it's just another one of

1142
00:47:34,660 --> 00:47:32,599
those things you can't just say there's

1143
00:47:36,370 --> 00:47:34,670
nothing to it you know you really I do

1144
00:47:38,799 --> 00:47:36,380
yeah there does seem to be a connection

1145
00:47:41,620 --> 00:47:38,809
at least in some cases to the UFO

1146
00:47:44,109 --> 00:47:41,630
phenomena yeah yeah well we're right at

1147
00:47:47,020 --> 00:47:44,119
the break again and so we're going to

1148
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:47,030
take a break and we'll be back right

1149
00:47:53,049 --> 00:47:50,450
after these messages hang in there I'll

1150
00:47:56,500 --> 00:47:53,059
be alright welcome back this is Martin

1151
00:48:00,069 --> 00:47:56,510
Willis and podcast UFO and my guest this

1152
00:48:02,170 --> 00:48:00,079
evening is Steve Ward and we've been

1153
00:48:05,589 --> 00:48:02,180
talking about all kinds of strange

1154
00:48:09,670 --> 00:48:05,599
things Mothman and more not just UFOs

1155
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:09,680
but we're going to be talking about

1156
00:48:16,150 --> 00:48:13,490
patterns and why don't you go ahead and

1157
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:16,160
and I know you said your main focus is

1158
00:48:22,089 --> 00:48:18,970
the patterns found in paranormal and

1159
00:48:23,500 --> 00:48:22,099
high strangeness areas so let's talk

1160
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:23,510
more about that we touched on it a

1161
00:48:27,460 --> 00:48:25,130
little bit but let's go into that some

1162
00:48:29,740 --> 00:48:27,470
more right because I think these things

1163
00:48:31,990 --> 00:48:29,750
the not only the high strangest areas

1164
00:48:33,819 --> 00:48:32,000
but these these possible links now you

1165
00:48:36,460 --> 00:48:33,829
can't be dogmatic about these things

1166
00:48:39,430 --> 00:48:36,470
obviously because again we're we're in a

1167
00:48:41,740 --> 00:48:39,440
really unknown territory but the there

1168
00:48:44,740 --> 00:48:41,750
are patterns that seem to show up now

1169
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:44,750
for example there are we can probably

1170
00:48:50,740 --> 00:48:47,690
cite hundreds of cases where UFOs were a

1171
00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:50,750
come in close proximity to a vehicle and

1172
00:48:55,210 --> 00:48:53,210
the engine stalls and we assume that

1173
00:48:56,980 --> 00:48:55,220
there's I mean remember the classic

1174
00:48:59,950 --> 00:48:56,990
scene in Close Encounters of the Third

1175
00:49:03,190 --> 00:48:59,960
Kind where Richard Dreyfuss is truck

1176
00:49:05,650 --> 00:49:03,200
gets stopped by a UFO and the of course

1177
00:49:07,240 --> 00:49:05,660
they they overdo it there the mail boxes

1178
00:49:09,279 --> 00:49:07,250
are going all over the place but this is

1179
00:49:11,500 --> 00:49:09,289
you can find all kinds of instances like

1180
00:49:13,750 --> 00:49:11,510
this in the literature well I thought

1181
00:49:14,870 --> 00:49:13,760
well where else can you find vehicle

1182
00:49:19,190 --> 00:49:14,880
stoppages

1183
00:49:20,930 --> 00:49:19,200
well 1960 North Cumberland England a

1184
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:20,940
lady named Dorothy strong is in a

1185
00:49:25,430 --> 00:49:23,610
taxicab and they're going along and all

1186
00:49:28,310 --> 00:49:25,440
of a sudden a they're seeing a

1187
00:49:31,250 --> 00:49:28,320
essentially a phantom army start to

1188
00:49:32,450 --> 00:49:31,260
manifest a huge army now they as it

1189
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:32,460
comes close to them

1190
00:49:37,550 --> 00:49:35,490
the soldiers fade out and this is not

1191
00:49:40,540 --> 00:49:37,560
the first time this has happened so they

1192
00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:40,550
know what this is it's the it's from

1193
00:49:47,810 --> 00:49:44,370
1913 88 the the batter battle of Otto

1194
00:49:50,060 --> 00:49:47,820
burn and and so but the thing is that as

1195
00:49:53,690 --> 00:49:50,070
it's coming close to the vehicle the

1196
00:49:55,820 --> 00:49:53,700
taxicab stalls the the fare meter goes

1197
00:49:59,150 --> 00:49:55,830
crazy and they feel like they're being

1198
00:50:00,380 --> 00:49:59,160
hit by an invisible wall now it now

1199
00:50:03,890 --> 00:50:00,390
these things now

1200
00:50:06,020 --> 00:50:03,900
phantom armies are not uncommon I mean

1201
00:50:08,300 --> 00:50:06,030
they happen and not just in England but

1202
00:50:12,950 --> 00:50:08,310
you know Gettysburg the same thing

1203
00:50:15,290 --> 00:50:12,960
happens but now you wonder you know in

1204
00:50:16,790 --> 00:50:15,300
hauntings and so forth people will have

1205
00:50:18,950 --> 00:50:16,800
their batteries drain when when

1206
00:50:21,620 --> 00:50:18,960
something manifests so perhaps something

1207
00:50:24,860 --> 00:50:21,630
of this magnitude could stop a car but

1208
00:50:27,530 --> 00:50:24,870
it fades out very quickly and then the

1209
00:50:34,300 --> 00:50:27,540
taxicab starts again no problem okay

1210
00:50:37,070 --> 00:50:34,310
let's go a step stranger let's see 1960

1211
00:50:39,860 --> 00:50:37,080
near Marling turn West Virginia two lane

1212
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:39,870
highway WT doc Priestley he's cruising

1213
00:50:43,310 --> 00:50:41,610
down this two lane in front of him is a

1214
00:50:45,650 --> 00:50:43,320
bus full of his buddies they're going

1215
00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:45,660
Caravan style somewhere all of a sudden

1216
00:50:49,910 --> 00:50:48,450
his car stops and cruises to us just to

1217
00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:49,920
meet with which has been running fine

1218
00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:53,130
that engine stalls and it goes to a stop

1219
00:50:59,270 --> 00:50:56,010
he looks over to his left and sees a

1220
00:51:02,510 --> 00:50:59,280
classic Bigfoot standing by the road now

1221
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:02,520
this thing it seems like it's it's crazy

1222
00:51:06,050 --> 00:51:04,170
that's like that when it's hair starts

1223
00:51:07,940 --> 00:51:06,060
to stand up on and a little bit it is

1224
00:51:10,430 --> 00:51:07,950
affecting his engine now

1225
00:51:12,290 --> 00:51:10,440
his buddies see that he you know he's

1226
00:51:15,020 --> 00:51:12,300
not behind him anymore the bus turns

1227
00:51:17,540 --> 00:51:15,030
around they're coming back and mr.

1228
00:51:19,820 --> 00:51:17,550
Bigfoot recedes back into the woods he's

1229
00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:19,830
able to start his car again he doesn't

1230
00:51:23,720 --> 00:51:21,210
at that time he does not tell his

1231
00:51:24,950 --> 00:51:23,730
buddies hey guess what I saw he didn't

1232
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:24,960
want to deal with it right then

1233
00:51:28,140 --> 00:51:26,970
so they take off and very shortly

1234
00:51:30,599 --> 00:51:28,150
afterwards his

1235
00:51:33,750 --> 00:51:30,609
starts to stall again they see sparks

1236
00:51:35,339 --> 00:51:33,760
underneath the engine and there's mr.

1237
00:51:37,559 --> 00:51:35,349
Bigfoot again either either the same

1238
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:37,569
Bigfoot or his kissing cousin standing

1239
00:51:40,079 --> 00:51:37,930
there

1240
00:51:43,140 --> 00:51:40,089
so he told later on he actually tells he

1241
00:51:44,940 --> 00:51:43,150
gives a interview to the press about

1242
00:51:46,859 --> 00:51:44,950
this strange thing that happened now

1243
00:51:49,289 --> 00:51:46,869
there are a few cases on records like

1244
00:51:52,109 --> 00:51:49,299
that where the close proximity of a

1245
00:51:56,250 --> 00:51:52,119
cryptid seems like it might have a some

1246
00:51:58,620 --> 00:51:56,260
kind of a effect on the engine but my

1247
00:52:00,089 --> 00:51:58,630
all-time favorite vehicle stoppage and

1248
00:52:01,980 --> 00:52:00,099
this gets into you mentioned Jacques

1249
00:52:04,049 --> 00:52:01,990
Vallee earlier and there's a lot we can

1250
00:52:07,829 --> 00:52:04,059
talk about him because he he really

1251
00:52:10,500 --> 00:52:07,839
showed the connection between folklore

1252
00:52:12,329 --> 00:52:10,510
elements of folklore like Celtic

1253
00:52:14,250 --> 00:52:12,339
folklore and so forth the fairies the

1254
00:52:16,410 --> 00:52:14,260
little people and so forth and some

1255
00:52:18,660 --> 00:52:16,420
modern-day UFO experiences there are

1256
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:18,670
undeniable connections like missing time

1257
00:52:23,670 --> 00:52:21,490
and that sort of thing but that this

1258
00:52:26,069 --> 00:52:23,680
particular case was took place it was

1259
00:52:28,829 --> 00:52:26,079
reported by Elliot O'Donnell Elliot

1260
00:52:30,990 --> 00:52:28,839
O'Donnell was a kind of a paranormal

1261
00:52:34,980 --> 00:52:31,000
researcher of his time he wrote books in

1262
00:52:37,019 --> 00:52:34,990
the late 1800s Early 1900s and a book

1263
00:52:39,390 --> 00:52:37,029
called ghost land he talks about an

1264
00:52:42,210 --> 00:52:39,400
uncle by marriage who had a bizarre

1265
00:52:45,870 --> 00:52:42,220
experience in Ireland going toward

1266
00:52:48,180 --> 00:52:45,880
Limerick on a haunted Road he's his

1267
00:52:51,900 --> 00:52:48,190
uncle they just give him his name as mr.

1268
00:52:53,970 --> 00:52:51,910
B well he's he's in his buggy or card or

1269
00:52:57,029 --> 00:52:53,980
whatever it is being driven by his

1270
00:52:58,470 --> 00:52:57,039
servant named of Dunkley now you don't

1271
00:53:01,890 --> 00:52:58,480
get a better name than Dunkley for a

1272
00:53:03,990 --> 00:53:01,900
servant okay so they're going along it's

1273
00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:04,000
night you know clear skies and

1274
00:53:09,599 --> 00:53:05,650
everything and all the sudden the cart

1275
00:53:11,130 --> 00:53:09,609
comes to a stop and he turns around mr.

1276
00:53:13,700 --> 00:53:11,140
B turns around sees the horse has

1277
00:53:16,890 --> 00:53:13,710
stopped at his shivering his servant is

1278
00:53:17,490 --> 00:53:16,900
in a stupor he had got a look of terror

1279
00:53:20,250 --> 00:53:17,500
on his face

1280
00:53:21,930 --> 00:53:20,260
and he can't function now and then he

1281
00:53:24,420 --> 00:53:21,940
looks down and he sees these little

1282
00:53:27,299 --> 00:53:24,430
shadowy forms swarming around it the

1283
00:53:29,220 --> 00:53:27,309
cart and so he doesn't know what's going

1284
00:53:30,990 --> 00:53:29,230
on but he he turns around grabs the

1285
00:53:35,370 --> 00:53:31,000
reins gets the horse moving again and

1286
00:53:37,529 --> 00:53:35,380
breaks the spell so as it gets away the

1287
00:53:40,109 --> 00:53:37,539
servant comes out of it and he asked him

1288
00:53:41,970 --> 00:53:40,119
what what happened what did you see from

1289
00:53:44,250 --> 00:53:41,980
his mind's eye they came upon a

1290
00:53:46,830 --> 00:53:44,260
troupe of dancing fairies making merry

1291
00:53:48,900 --> 00:53:46,840
that's a bad bad news they don't like

1292
00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:48,910
people seeing them like this and his

1293
00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:51,490
from his viewpoint they could see the

1294
00:53:55,530 --> 00:53:53,890
anger hunter faces they're ascending on

1295
00:53:58,770 --> 00:53:55,540
the cart and they're literally trying to

1296
00:54:02,040 --> 00:53:58,780
pull him off so these two people

1297
00:54:03,540 --> 00:54:02,050
experience something again if this is a

1298
00:54:05,340 --> 00:54:03,550
true story you know we have to put in

1299
00:54:06,570 --> 00:54:05,350
that CAV yet but they've experienced

1300
00:54:08,609 --> 00:54:06,580
something different if you're gonna make

1301
00:54:12,030 --> 00:54:08,619
up a story I don't think you're going to

1302
00:54:14,130 --> 00:54:12,040
you know that create this duality here

1303
00:54:16,109 --> 00:54:14,140
like we saw something different but it

1304
00:54:18,210 --> 00:54:16,119
struck me as you know this is another

1305
00:54:21,180 --> 00:54:18,220
vehicle stoppage may not be connected to

1306
00:54:24,180 --> 00:54:21,190
the other ones at all but if you think

1307
00:54:27,630 --> 00:54:24,190
about so many classic abduction cases

1308
00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:27,640
Betty and Barney Hill there's some

1309
00:54:31,349 --> 00:54:29,050
similarities at least in the beginning

1310
00:54:33,180 --> 00:54:31,359
they're going along in the car the car

1311
00:54:35,250 --> 00:54:33,190
stops they're ushered out of the car by

1312
00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:35,260
these five foot tall beings not exactly

1313
00:54:40,470 --> 00:54:38,770
the fairies I would say but Barney is in

1314
00:54:42,720 --> 00:54:40,480
kind of a stupor a good part of the time

1315
00:54:46,260 --> 00:54:42,730
but not is not conscious all the time

1316
00:54:48,330 --> 00:54:46,270
Betty is alive and well alert and a real

1317
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:48,340
Spitfire and giving the aliens a rough

1318
00:54:53,099 --> 00:54:50,890
time and also and think that while they

1319
00:54:55,380 --> 00:54:53,109
reported very much the same experience

1320
00:54:58,560 --> 00:54:55,390
they didn't actually report exactly the

1321
00:55:00,630 --> 00:54:58,570
same experience the faces one of them

1322
00:55:02,849 --> 00:55:00,640
reported that they had kind of Jimmy

1323
00:55:05,130 --> 00:55:02,859
Durante noses the other one said they

1324
00:55:07,470 --> 00:55:05,140
were more like slit so the experience

1325
00:55:09,720 --> 00:55:07,480
wasn't quite identical and then if you

1326
00:55:12,599 --> 00:55:09,730
look briefly at the Pascagoula incident

1327
00:55:14,460 --> 00:55:12,609
I Hickson and Parker the Pascagoula

1328
00:55:17,849 --> 00:55:14,470
fishermen that were abducted off the

1329
00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:17,859
pier in 73 partner goes out he's

1330
00:55:24,510 --> 00:55:22,210
unconscious and Hickson stays alert and

1331
00:55:27,390 --> 00:55:24,520
think of how many instances of

1332
00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:27,400
paranormal of UFO abductions where the

1333
00:55:32,490 --> 00:55:30,490
spouse is you know knows what's going on

1334
00:55:36,180 --> 00:55:32,500
and sees the aid the greys or whatever

1335
00:55:38,880 --> 00:55:36,190
but the their spouse is unconscious

1336
00:55:41,190 --> 00:55:38,890
sleep and they can't wake them up so

1337
00:55:43,109 --> 00:55:41,200
again I don't know that these videos our

1338
00:55:45,150 --> 00:55:43,119
patterns are real or not but it's just

1339
00:55:47,820 --> 00:55:45,160
very interesting to you know to follow

1340
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:47,830
them through well just just one thing

1341
00:55:53,849 --> 00:55:50,170
I've now I've had I've had Calvin Parker

1342
00:55:55,890 --> 00:55:53,859
on this show and by the way he's uh he's

1343
00:55:57,450 --> 00:55:55,900
doing really well these days

1344
00:56:01,830 --> 00:55:57,460
he's getting involved in all kinds of

1345
00:56:03,839 --> 00:56:01,840
things which is great after he came you

1346
00:56:06,180 --> 00:56:03,849
know and start speaking again actually

1347
00:56:08,220 --> 00:56:06,190
about one thing I was really glad to see

1348
00:56:11,609 --> 00:56:08,230
him come forward finally yep but one

1349
00:56:13,349 --> 00:56:11,619
thing I did say was the story about him

1350
00:56:14,670 --> 00:56:13,359
being passed out was something he made

1351
00:56:17,310 --> 00:56:14,680
up because he didn't want to talk about

1352
00:56:21,359 --> 00:56:17,320
it okay well that's good to know yeah I

1353
00:56:22,950 --> 00:56:21,369
I don't blame him but anyway the so

1354
00:56:25,380 --> 00:56:22,960
there are are these parallels with in

1355
00:56:26,640 --> 00:56:25,390
other situations anyway yeah but there's

1356
00:56:30,410 --> 00:56:26,650
there something I do have a kind of a

1357
00:56:34,080 --> 00:56:30,420
personal story about Hickson and Parker

1358
00:56:36,630 --> 00:56:34,090
because back when we had our informal

1359
00:56:38,130 --> 00:56:36,640
UFO group our sort of de facto leader

1360
00:56:41,160 --> 00:56:38,140
Lloyd

1361
00:56:43,500 --> 00:56:41,170
he knew what is it Mendez or Menendez

1362
00:56:45,750 --> 00:56:43,510
that co-wrote the book with Charles

1363
00:56:47,910 --> 00:56:45,760
Hickson the Pascagoula incident yeah

1364
00:56:50,520 --> 00:56:47,920
well well this is back in the middle 70s

1365
00:56:55,920 --> 00:56:50,530
we got a hold of a copy of cassette copy

1366
00:56:58,500 --> 00:56:55,930
of that you heard about the when Hickson

1367
00:57:00,690 --> 00:56:58,510
and Parker went to the sheriff and the

1368
00:57:01,740 --> 00:57:00,700
sheriff went out of them yes what's

1369
00:57:03,570 --> 00:57:01,750
sheriff went out of the room and

1370
00:57:04,440 --> 00:57:03,580
recorded these guys they didn't know

1371
00:57:06,900 --> 00:57:04,450
they're being recorded

1372
00:57:09,450 --> 00:57:06,910
we heard that back in the middle 70s

1373
00:57:11,609 --> 00:57:09,460
before years before anybody else did and

1374
00:57:13,950 --> 00:57:11,619
so we knew back then that these guys

1375
00:57:15,420 --> 00:57:13,960
were legitimate and that something

1376
00:57:17,700 --> 00:57:15,430
really bizarre happened to them

1377
00:57:21,480 --> 00:57:17,710
yeah you know that's a great case yeah

1378
00:57:23,849 --> 00:57:21,490
it was Mendez actually yes man Desmond

1379
00:57:27,210 --> 00:57:23,859
yes okay now there's all kinds of other

1380
00:57:30,900 --> 00:57:27,220
there's the the classic but the the

1381
00:57:34,290 --> 00:57:30,910
connection between folklore and and in

1382
00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:34,300
modern-day UFO experiences are

1383
00:57:38,550 --> 00:57:35,770
fascinating and we could go on forever

1384
00:57:41,070 --> 00:57:38,560
but one of the really classic cases took

1385
00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:41,080
place in 61 in Eagle River Wisconsin and

1386
00:57:47,339 --> 00:57:44,410
that was the Joe Symington incident and

1387
00:57:48,990 --> 00:57:47,349
I call them the cosmic pancakes from

1388
00:57:53,070 --> 00:57:49,000
outer space I don't know if people

1389
00:57:55,950 --> 00:57:53,080
remember this case but he Symington was

1390
00:57:58,680 --> 00:57:55,960
a plumber by trade and a chicken farmer

1391
00:58:01,109 --> 00:57:58,690
by day and he's his farms kind of

1392
00:58:06,390 --> 00:58:01,119
isolated and he sees his craft land

1393
00:58:09,599 --> 00:58:06,400
pretty pretty standard you know flying

1394
00:58:12,059 --> 00:58:09,609
saucer type craft and it's come down

1395
00:58:14,069 --> 00:58:12,069
any there's a door open he approaches it

1396
00:58:16,049 --> 00:58:14,079
and he looks inside and he's you know

1397
00:58:17,910 --> 00:58:16,059
he's pretty pretty non-threatening he

1398
00:58:19,769 --> 00:58:17,920
sees these men in there in coveralls

1399
00:58:22,769 --> 00:58:19,779
they look like they might be about five

1400
00:58:25,049 --> 00:58:22,779
feet tall and this looked the case where

1401
00:58:27,299 --> 00:58:25,059
they they hand him it kind of a silver

1402
00:58:29,609 --> 00:58:27,309
chalice and indicate through sign

1403
00:58:33,809 --> 00:58:29,619
language that they want water in it now

1404
00:58:37,079 --> 00:58:33,819
you wonder what the heck do two et's if

1405
00:58:39,900 --> 00:58:37,089
that's what they are want with water so

1406
00:58:44,099 --> 00:58:39,910
he goes to his well and he brings back

1407
00:58:47,069 --> 00:58:44,109
the water and he notices that one of

1408
00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:47,079
them is cooking with an eye on a

1409
00:58:50,849 --> 00:58:49,690
flameless grill oh and it looked like

1410
00:58:53,460 --> 00:58:50,859
there's something that looked like

1411
00:58:55,829 --> 00:58:53,470
pancakes right and so they can give him

1412
00:58:58,319 --> 00:58:55,839
some of these pancakes supposedly in

1413
00:59:00,769 --> 00:58:58,329
exchange for the water and the incident

1414
00:59:02,999 --> 00:59:00,779
doesn't last very long and they take off

1415
00:59:05,039 --> 00:59:03,009
the thing is you can you can hear Jo

1416
00:59:08,069 --> 00:59:05,049
Symington tell this story on on YouTube

1417
00:59:09,450 --> 00:59:08,079
some of these old clippings all the

1418
00:59:12,720 --> 00:59:09,460
others opens you know these brief

1419
00:59:15,420 --> 00:59:12,730
interviews that we're done and the thing

1420
00:59:17,150 --> 00:59:15,430
is that dr. Hynek got in on this this is

1421
00:59:19,769 --> 00:59:17,160
back when he was still in Blue Book and

1422
00:59:21,839 --> 00:59:19,779
everybody the officers that interviewed

1423
00:59:23,880 --> 00:59:21,849
him there was a judge Carter I think his

1424
00:59:25,200 --> 00:59:23,890
name was that knew him and that

1425
00:59:28,620 --> 00:59:25,210
interviewed him and wrote an article

1426
00:59:30,870 --> 00:59:28,630
about it everybody said that they don't

1427
00:59:32,789 --> 00:59:30,880
know what happened there but Joe

1428
00:59:34,229 --> 00:59:32,799
believes that this happened

1429
00:59:36,269 --> 00:59:34,239
of course the Air Force said he had a

1430
00:59:37,920 --> 00:59:36,279
waking dream or whatever but there's a

1431
00:59:40,289 --> 00:59:37,930
lot of if you follow this there's a lot

1432
00:59:42,229 --> 00:59:40,299
of really interesting patterns here the

1433
00:59:44,940 --> 00:59:42,239
judge for one thing judge Carter

1434
00:59:46,739 --> 00:59:44,950
by the way I will get to tell you the

1435
00:59:50,009 --> 00:59:46,749
the punchline of this in a minute the

1436
00:59:52,170 --> 00:59:50,019
Air Force actually did check out the the

1437
00:59:54,029 --> 00:59:52,180
ingredients in the pancakes you're using

1438
00:59:56,670 --> 00:59:54,039
our taxpayers money but we'll get to

1439
00:59:58,589 --> 00:59:56,680
that in a second so judge Carter so

1440
01:00:01,049 --> 00:59:58,599
human who knows Jo and figures he's a

1441
01:00:04,289 --> 01:00:01,059
credible guy and judge Carter was even

1442
01:00:07,650 --> 01:00:04,299
they had investigated UFOs to some

1443
01:00:09,450 --> 01:00:07,660
degree they said well Joe what did what

1444
01:00:12,029 --> 01:00:09,460
do these guys look like little green men

1445
01:00:15,630 --> 01:00:12,039
and joe says well no they look kind of

1446
01:00:19,559 --> 01:00:15,640
swarthy like Italians and so okay now

1447
01:00:23,099 --> 01:00:19,569
here's another segue John keel found an

1448
01:00:25,229 --> 01:00:23,109
old it was a some kind of a Prescott

1449
01:00:28,739 --> 01:00:25,239
reference general spats from World War

1450
01:00:30,089 --> 01:00:28,749
two this is a took place in 1948 I don't

1451
01:00:32,339 --> 01:00:30,099
know what the whole just of the the

1452
01:00:35,269 --> 01:00:32,349
conference was but he in part of it he

1453
01:00:36,450 --> 01:00:35,279
says there's no truth to the rumor that

1454
01:00:39,239 --> 01:00:36,460
Spaniards

1455
01:00:42,839 --> 01:00:39,249
are driving flying saucers or that's

1456
01:00:44,460 --> 01:00:42,849
that UFOs come from Spain so you know

1457
01:00:47,670 --> 01:00:44,470
Kiel had found in some of his own

1458
01:00:49,229 --> 01:00:47,680
research some of the now this is before

1459
01:00:51,690 --> 01:00:49,239
the greys came in that's a whole other

1460
01:00:55,440 --> 01:00:51,700
subject there used to be a time when you

1461
01:00:58,289 --> 01:00:55,450
could almost never find a gray described

1462
01:01:00,539 --> 01:00:58,299
in conjunction with a UFO we had quite a

1463
01:01:03,479 --> 01:01:00,549
variety of aliens or whatever they are

1464
01:01:06,120 --> 01:01:03,489
but Kiel found that people were

1465
01:01:09,599 --> 01:01:06,130
reporting some of the occupants of

1466
01:01:11,609 --> 01:01:09,609
landed craft as not very not terribly

1467
01:01:13,079 --> 01:01:11,619
sophisticated but they would call them

1468
01:01:15,960 --> 01:01:13,089
like well they looked like dark

1469
01:01:16,470 --> 01:01:15,970
Mediterranean types or foreigners or

1470
01:01:19,769 --> 01:01:16,480
whatever

1471
01:01:21,599 --> 01:01:19,779
so this swarthy looking Italians kind of

1472
01:01:23,519 --> 01:01:21,609
fit that a bit and even when you get

1473
01:01:26,160 --> 01:01:23,529
into some of the men and black phenomena

1474
01:01:28,200 --> 01:01:26,170
some of the men in black actually kind

1475
01:01:32,190 --> 01:01:28,210
of fit that description which is kind of

1476
01:01:33,809 --> 01:01:32,200
interesting so the now the whole you

1477
01:01:36,420 --> 01:01:33,819
know the whole thing's absurd I mean

1478
01:01:38,849 --> 01:01:36,430
there's a there is a huge absurd factor

1479
01:01:40,890 --> 01:01:38,859
in so many of these cases and that's why

1480
01:01:43,200 --> 01:01:40,900
some people don't deal with them I mean

1481
01:01:45,120 --> 01:01:43,210
if they're if this craft has come down

1482
01:01:47,190 --> 01:01:45,130
from a mothership what the heck are they

1483
01:01:50,880 --> 01:01:47,200
doing looking for an external source of

1484
01:01:52,650 --> 01:01:50,890
water I you know and cooking pancakes on

1485
01:01:54,749 --> 01:01:52,660
don't they have freeze-dried food

1486
01:01:55,979 --> 01:01:54,759
remember the the commercials for the

1487
01:01:57,539 --> 01:01:55,989
astronauts with Chang

1488
01:01:59,220 --> 01:01:57,549
you know don't they have little little

1489
01:02:00,390 --> 01:01:59,230
packets I mean what's what the heck is

1490
01:02:03,479 --> 01:02:00,400
going on there's crazy

1491
01:02:05,609 --> 01:02:03,489
so amping trip to me yeah well yes but

1492
01:02:08,220 --> 01:02:05,619
it's there's this again it there's this

1493
01:02:10,829 --> 01:02:08,230
absurd factor but if you look at the

1494
01:02:13,229 --> 01:02:10,839
possible ferry connection and Jacques

1495
01:02:15,749 --> 01:02:13,239
Foley pointed this out when they did the

1496
01:02:18,150 --> 01:02:15,759
investigation as to what the ingredients

1497
01:02:20,370 --> 01:02:18,160
were in the pancakes the one thing that

1498
01:02:22,769 --> 01:02:20,380
was missing is the one thing that is

1499
01:02:24,450 --> 01:02:22,779
supposed to be detrimental or deadly to

1500
01:02:26,849 --> 01:02:24,460
the fairies or the little people and

1501
01:02:28,979 --> 01:02:26,859
that was salt there was no salt in the

1502
01:02:30,690 --> 01:02:28,989
pancakes but let's let's look at the

1503
01:02:32,819 --> 01:02:30,700
just briefly at the water connection

1504
01:02:36,190 --> 01:02:32,829
okay there's all kinds of instances

1505
01:02:39,970 --> 01:02:36,200
where crafts gather up water

1506
01:02:41,740 --> 01:02:39,980
Ingo Swann Ingo Swann who supposedly

1507
01:02:44,710 --> 01:02:41,750
remote viewed the far side of the moon

1508
01:02:47,530 --> 01:02:44,720
for a clandestine government group Ingo

1509
01:02:49,270 --> 01:02:47,540
Swann was the guy that helped the

1510
01:02:52,870 --> 01:02:49,280
military develop the remote viewing

1511
01:02:55,980 --> 01:02:52,880
program so he describes an incident in

1512
01:02:58,780 --> 01:02:55,990
his book that they went out to this

1513
01:03:00,099 --> 01:02:58,790
remote location he didn't know where

1514
01:03:02,500 --> 01:03:00,109
they were taking on the government this

1515
01:03:04,329 --> 01:03:02,510
government faction or whatever and he

1516
01:03:06,490 --> 01:03:04,339
saw this triangular craft come over a

1517
01:03:09,940 --> 01:03:06,500
lake and literally suck up the water

1518
01:03:13,599 --> 01:03:09,950
into it okay there's a classic case in

1519
01:03:15,880 --> 01:03:13,609
Ontario from the 60s where a couple hear

1520
01:03:17,589 --> 01:03:15,890
this loud noise they go over and look

1521
01:03:20,880 --> 01:03:17,599
over this rise look down in the lake

1522
01:03:23,650 --> 01:03:20,890
there's a classic flying saucer UFO

1523
01:03:25,799 --> 01:03:23,660
landed on the lake there's a hose in

1524
01:03:29,430 --> 01:03:25,809
that in the lake that's drawing

1525
01:03:34,170 --> 01:03:29,440
apparently drawing water out of the lake

1526
01:03:37,750 --> 01:03:34,180
but let's go go another one one more mid

1527
01:03:39,640 --> 01:03:37,760
mid 50s I can't remember the names John

1528
01:03:41,260 --> 01:03:39,650
Black was one of them a couple of miners

1529
01:03:43,539 --> 01:03:41,270
there out in the middle of nowhere in

1530
01:03:45,339 --> 01:03:43,549
California a couple times over the last

1531
01:03:48,220 --> 01:03:45,349
month they've seen one of these classic

1532
01:03:51,700 --> 01:03:48,230
discs flying saucers and then the guy

1533
01:03:55,450 --> 01:03:51,710
John is in the woods and he sees what he

1534
01:03:57,700 --> 01:03:55,460
first thinks is a kid bending over a

1535
01:04:00,700 --> 01:03:57,710
stream fishing looks a little closer and

1536
01:04:02,589 --> 01:04:00,710
this ain't no kid now this entity is a

1537
01:04:04,660 --> 01:04:02,599
little short dude you know nothing

1538
01:04:07,390 --> 01:04:04,670
not exactly a gray it looks like he's

1539
01:04:10,059 --> 01:04:07,400
wearing a tie some kind of an outfit but

1540
01:04:12,069 --> 01:04:10,069
he's gathering up water in a some kind

1541
01:04:14,170 --> 01:04:12,079
of a bucket or whatever and then he

1542
01:04:16,150 --> 01:04:14,180
follows him out of the woods and he goes

1543
01:04:18,730 --> 01:04:16,160
to one of these four landed craft goes

1544
01:04:22,569 --> 01:04:18,740
up the ladder and takes off what the

1545
01:04:24,010 --> 01:04:22,579
heck is going on with entities if that's

1546
01:04:26,020 --> 01:04:24,020
what if there's what if that's what this

1547
01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:26,030
is gathering up water in a very

1548
01:04:31,539 --> 01:04:28,010
conventional manner wouldn't you think

1549
01:04:34,210 --> 01:04:31,549
that they could go to Acme cosmic I

1550
01:04:36,700 --> 01:04:34,220
don't know industrial hose or whatever

1551
01:04:39,490 --> 01:04:36,710
and so anyway anyway you look at these

1552
01:04:41,049 --> 01:04:39,500
you get these crazy patterns and these

1553
01:04:42,520 --> 01:04:41,059
are and sometimes these are people that

1554
01:04:44,109 --> 01:04:42,530
know nothing about the literature or

1555
01:04:47,710 --> 01:04:44,119
whatever and don't really have enough

1556
01:04:49,819 --> 01:04:47,720
information to provide a hoax but so

1557
01:04:52,910 --> 01:04:49,829
it's just it's just fascinating

1558
01:04:56,420 --> 01:04:52,920
to see the way that works and that just

1559
01:04:59,870 --> 01:04:56,430
makes me hesitant to say that we're

1560
01:05:00,670 --> 01:04:59,880
simply dealing with you know people from

1561
01:05:03,140 --> 01:05:00,680
outer space

1562
01:05:06,920 --> 01:05:03,150
right I know there's also a case of a

1563
01:05:10,069 --> 01:05:06,930
woman looking out her window from a

1564
01:05:12,079 --> 01:05:10,079
cottage in a lake and a UFO like sucking

1565
01:05:13,640 --> 01:05:12,089
water out of the lake I remember reading

1566
01:05:15,920 --> 01:05:13,650
something about that I don't know maybe

1567
01:05:18,799 --> 01:05:15,930
four or five years ago so there's a lot

1568
01:05:20,690 --> 01:05:18,809
of that hmm yeah interesting there's a

1569
01:05:24,019 --> 01:05:20,700
question that came in in the chat that's

1570
01:05:25,640 --> 01:05:24,029
related to water anyway and that is is

1571
01:05:27,890 --> 01:05:25,650
there a link this is a question to you

1572
01:05:30,440 --> 01:05:27,900
is there a link between locations close

1573
01:05:35,809 --> 01:05:30,450
to rivers and possible portal openings

1574
01:05:37,930 --> 01:05:35,819
or residual sightings etc possibly you

1575
01:05:40,670 --> 01:05:37,940
know this just actually gets into the

1576
01:05:42,529 --> 01:05:40,680
David Politis missing for one one stuff

1577
01:05:45,170 --> 01:05:42,539
I don't know if you're familiar with

1578
01:05:47,900 --> 01:05:45,180
Joshua Cochin he wrote a book recently

1579
01:05:49,819 --> 01:05:47,910
called thieves in the night and he he

1580
01:05:51,739 --> 01:05:49,829
talks very very much about him he kind

1581
01:05:54,109 --> 01:05:51,749
of picks up the mantle from Jacques

1582
01:05:58,370 --> 01:05:54,119
Vallee and talks a great deal about the

1583
01:06:02,150 --> 01:05:58,380
The Faerie UFO connection but he also

1584
01:06:04,069 --> 01:06:02,160
brings in the the David Politis missing

1585
01:06:05,209 --> 01:06:04,079
for one one stuff and for those that

1586
01:06:07,370 --> 01:06:05,219
don't know what I'm talking about

1587
01:06:09,829 --> 01:06:07,380
David Politis has written what over half

1588
01:06:11,689 --> 01:06:09,839
a dozen books now on these really really

1589
01:06:13,670 --> 01:06:11,699
mysterious disappearances you know we're

1590
01:06:16,430 --> 01:06:13,680
not talking things that are just easily

1591
01:06:19,640 --> 01:06:16,440
explained and he's found that there are

1592
01:06:21,099 --> 01:06:19,650
certain patterns that show up I mean

1593
01:06:25,400 --> 01:06:21,109
people will be out in the wilderness

1594
01:06:26,930 --> 01:06:25,410
picking berries or in boulder fields but

1595
01:06:30,819 --> 01:06:26,940
the thing is without getting too

1596
01:06:33,109 --> 01:06:30,829
detailed guichen found out that the the

1597
01:06:35,239 --> 01:06:33,119
some of the patterns are very much the

1598
01:06:37,489 --> 01:06:35,249
same the people that the the folklore

1599
01:06:40,279 --> 01:06:37,499
that even comes over from the the old

1600
01:06:44,150 --> 01:06:40,289
country like Newfoundland and so for

1601
01:06:46,459 --> 01:06:44,160
example the the things you're told about

1602
01:06:48,349 --> 01:06:46,469
what to be wary of with Encounters of

1603
01:06:50,420 --> 01:06:48,359
the fairies are some of the same

1604
01:06:52,549 --> 01:06:50,430
patterns that are found in the missing

1605
01:06:56,329 --> 01:06:52,559
for 1/1 stuff I don't know if you know

1606
01:06:59,660 --> 01:06:56,339
about how sometimes dogs can't can't

1607
01:07:02,689 --> 01:06:59,670
track yes they write well the dogs were

1608
01:07:03,590 --> 01:07:02,699
afraid of the fairies they're you know

1609
01:07:05,570 --> 01:07:03,600
they're like

1610
01:07:09,380 --> 01:07:05,580
say thee there's that there's a classic

1611
01:07:10,940 --> 01:07:09,390
case and in Newfoundland where a young

1612
01:07:14,240 --> 01:07:10,950
boy now you see you were supposed to

1613
01:07:16,370 --> 01:07:14,250
when you're out picking berries you were

1614
01:07:18,740 --> 01:07:16,380
supposed to bring bread with you now I

1615
01:07:20,870 --> 01:07:18,750
don't know if that was if the bread had

1616
01:07:22,940 --> 01:07:20,880
salt in it would I don't know what the

1617
01:07:24,980 --> 01:07:22,950
reason was but it was I think it was so

1618
01:07:26,930 --> 01:07:24,990
some way I was through ward off the

1619
01:07:29,480 --> 01:07:26,940
fairies well this one young boy forgot

1620
01:07:32,930 --> 01:07:29,490
to bring the bread well he disappears he

1621
01:07:34,880 --> 01:07:32,940
vanishes for three days he shows up he's

1622
01:07:36,710 --> 01:07:34,890
in a stupor he can't remember what

1623
01:07:38,300 --> 01:07:36,720
happened to him now I don't know what

1624
01:07:41,000 --> 01:07:38,310
happened to him but it sounds exactly

1625
01:07:42,860 --> 01:07:41,010
like a textbook case of one of the

1626
01:07:45,200 --> 01:07:42,870
things that David Politis talks about

1627
01:07:49,940 --> 01:07:45,210
with some missing people that come back

1628
01:07:51,980 --> 01:07:49,950
and seem to be unscathed and don't can't

1629
01:07:54,410 --> 01:07:51,990
really talk about what happened to them

1630
01:07:57,950 --> 01:07:54,420
so there's all kinds I don't have you

1631
01:08:00,470 --> 01:07:57,960
ever heard of of Maine braiding like

1632
01:08:01,880 --> 01:08:00,480
horse mane braiding there are people

1633
01:08:04,160 --> 01:08:01,890
there were Bigfoot researchers that

1634
01:08:06,620 --> 01:08:04,170
firmly believe that Bigfoot was a Lisa

1635
01:08:08,240 --> 01:08:06,630
she'll has written a book backyard

1636
01:08:09,920 --> 01:08:08,250
Bigfoot and there's others I talked to

1637
01:08:13,490 --> 01:08:09,930
Bigfoot researchers and they say oh yes

1638
01:08:16,160 --> 01:08:13,500
there's they believe that Bigfoot comes

1639
01:08:18,590 --> 01:08:16,170
into remote areas and will braid sort of

1640
01:08:20,720 --> 01:08:18,600
cross over the hairs of the of the of

1641
01:08:23,450 --> 01:08:20,730
the horses

1642
01:08:25,580 --> 01:08:23,460
well then same tradition holds up in

1643
01:08:27,110 --> 01:08:25,590
Newfoundland where they don't call them

1644
01:08:28,940 --> 01:08:27,120
fairies there but whatever these little

1645
01:08:31,400 --> 01:08:28,950
entities are there they're the ones that

1646
01:08:33,290 --> 01:08:31,410
do the same thing so if it is a real

1647
01:08:35,270 --> 01:08:33,300
phenomena and I don't know if it is or

1648
01:08:37,670 --> 01:08:35,280
not there are you know people say well

1649
01:08:39,530 --> 01:08:37,680
some people say Bigfoot some people say

1650
01:08:42,250 --> 01:08:39,540
the fairies so again you get these

1651
01:08:48,430 --> 01:08:42,260
bizarre connections and patterns that

1652
01:08:50,990 --> 01:08:48,440
may or may not be legitimate right right

1653
01:08:55,370 --> 01:08:51,000
the one the one thing you know you

1654
01:08:57,140 --> 01:08:55,380
talked about the connection of between

1655
01:09:02,000 --> 01:08:57,150
what people are talking about they're

1656
01:09:06,680 --> 01:09:02,010
seeing and do you do you just feel as

1657
01:09:09,140 --> 01:09:06,690
though that in today's world that what

1658
01:09:11,450 --> 01:09:09,150
people were calling leprechauns or what

1659
01:09:14,960 --> 01:09:11,460
people are saying that are abducting

1660
01:09:18,350 --> 01:09:14,970
them you know greys oh okay the good

1661
01:09:20,210 --> 01:09:18,360
point I tend to think that

1662
01:09:22,280 --> 01:09:20,220
there's a definite connection and

1663
01:09:24,410 --> 01:09:22,290
there's a lot more detail to that but

1664
01:09:26,840 --> 01:09:24,420
I'm not suggesting that

1665
01:09:31,400 --> 01:09:26,850
leprechauns are driving UFOs or flying

1666
01:09:33,590 --> 01:09:31,410
saucers or that UFO pilots used to sport

1667
01:09:35,840 --> 01:09:33,600
little green suits and red hats you know

1668
01:09:37,970 --> 01:09:35,850
100 years ago it seems like maybe a

1669
01:09:41,780 --> 01:09:37,980
third rail or there's some commonality

1670
01:09:43,790 --> 01:09:41,790
that in this phenomena perhaps mask

1671
01:09:46,190 --> 01:09:43,800
itself or manifest differently in

1672
01:09:49,400 --> 01:09:46,200
different different ways there's just a

1673
01:09:52,490 --> 01:09:49,410
definite connection there but I don't I

1674
01:09:56,030 --> 01:09:52,500
don't know if it's that simple as you

1675
01:09:58,040 --> 01:09:56,040
know UFO pilots appearing differently or

1676
01:10:01,160 --> 01:09:58,050
simply a matter of perception

1677
01:10:05,420 --> 01:10:01,170
I think people you know Evans Wentz who

1678
01:10:06,890 --> 01:10:05,430
was a who researched the stories he

1679
01:10:08,870 --> 01:10:06,900
wrote a book called a fairy faith of

1680
01:10:11,420 --> 01:10:08,880
Celtic countries it was published about

1681
01:10:12,860 --> 01:10:11,430
1911 and he went around and he talked to

1682
01:10:14,990 --> 01:10:12,870
people one on one about their

1683
01:10:17,420 --> 01:10:15,000
experiences with the little people and

1684
01:10:19,400 --> 01:10:17,430
just as we go along around now and talk

1685
01:10:21,500 --> 01:10:19,410
about people talk to people about their

1686
01:10:24,520 --> 01:10:21,510
UFO experience or their sighting so

1687
01:10:27,860 --> 01:10:24,530
these were one-on-one real experiences

1688
01:10:29,840 --> 01:10:27,870
time after time with people that claimed

1689
01:10:32,660 --> 01:10:29,850
that really believed and and they would

1690
01:10:36,230 --> 01:10:32,670
have missing time just in the same way

1691
01:10:38,510 --> 01:10:36,240
that you know Betty and Barney Hill did

1692
01:10:40,820 --> 01:10:38,520
only they would be usually whisked away

1693
01:10:43,850 --> 01:10:40,830
to the maybe inside a mountain or

1694
01:10:45,950 --> 01:10:43,860
underground Kingdom sometimes UFO

1695
01:10:50,170 --> 01:10:45,960
abductees believe they were taken to an

1696
01:10:54,230 --> 01:10:50,180
underground base or whatever there are

1697
01:10:56,330 --> 01:10:54,240
other aspects whereas sometimes there's

1698
01:10:58,280 --> 01:10:56,340
a perilous that you know people talk

1699
01:11:00,410 --> 01:10:58,290
about being paralyzed when they've seen

1700
01:11:02,780 --> 01:11:00,420
a couple entities or whatever from i

1701
01:11:05,330 --> 01:11:02,790
from i landed crab well perilous was

1702
01:11:07,880 --> 01:11:05,340
another common thing with the with the

1703
01:11:09,950 --> 01:11:07,890
little people so and it does it just

1704
01:11:12,470 --> 01:11:09,960
seems like there's so many so many

1705
01:11:14,380 --> 01:11:12,480
parallels where there's a lot of smoke

1706
01:11:17,450 --> 01:11:14,390
there and there must be something to it

1707
01:11:20,870 --> 01:11:17,460
right well one of the things you said

1708
01:11:24,590 --> 01:11:20,880
you had an interest in is like Van

1709
01:11:26,990 --> 01:11:24,600
Tassel and all the the contacts you know

1710
01:11:29,180 --> 01:11:27,000
a lot of them were charlatans that we're

1711
01:11:31,100 --> 01:11:29,190
doing this type of thing but but it's

1712
01:11:34,910 --> 01:11:31,110
still like a fascination of yours

1713
01:11:37,700 --> 01:11:34,920
yes yes I think that there may be you

1714
01:11:40,430 --> 01:11:37,710
know there may be some something to be

1715
01:11:42,770 --> 01:11:40,440
learned there George Van Tassel was the

1716
01:11:45,140 --> 01:11:42,780
he's the one that lived under giant rock

1717
01:11:46,640 --> 01:11:45,150
in Rolla fornia it had those and I would

1718
01:11:48,560 --> 01:11:46,650
have loved can you imagine what it would

1719
01:11:51,260 --> 01:11:48,570
have been like to go to those great

1720
01:11:54,320 --> 01:11:51,270
conventions in California now these were

1721
01:11:56,540 --> 01:11:54,330
mainly directed toward the contactees

1722
01:12:00,020 --> 01:11:56,550
and of course the contact Dean's were

1723
01:12:01,609 --> 01:12:00,030
usually they came out of you know in 47

1724
01:12:04,820 --> 01:12:01,619
is when Kenneth Arnold had his sighting

1725
01:12:08,390 --> 01:12:04,830
and then in the 50s and 60s you had a

1726
01:12:09,800 --> 01:12:08,400
lot of stories about the contact with

1727
01:12:12,830 --> 01:12:09,810
the beautiful space brothers the

1728
01:12:15,320 --> 01:12:12,840
long-haired Venetians and so forth and a

1729
01:12:17,629 --> 01:12:15,330
lot a lot of very dubious stories but

1730
01:12:19,040 --> 01:12:17,639
you wonder about some of them if perhaps

1731
01:12:22,310 --> 01:12:19,050
you know there was something really

1732
01:12:24,560 --> 01:12:22,320
going on and he van tassel would have

1733
01:12:26,570 --> 01:12:24,570
these these great conventions in giant

1734
01:12:28,970 --> 01:12:26,580
rock which catered mostly to the

1735
01:12:30,979 --> 01:12:28,980
contactees and if you want a nice

1736
01:12:33,500 --> 01:12:30,989
definition of what's the difference

1737
01:12:38,180 --> 01:12:33,510
between a contact key and an abductee is

1738
01:12:41,479 --> 01:12:38,190
a contact II has a choice and to you

1739
01:12:43,250 --> 01:12:41,489
know to make contact the abductee has no

1740
01:12:46,280 --> 01:12:43,260
choice they get that unscheduled medical

1741
01:12:50,570 --> 01:12:46,290
exam with no deductible and no copay so

1742
01:12:52,129 --> 01:12:50,580
but but but Van Tassel would sit on a

1743
01:12:55,729 --> 01:12:52,139
giant rock and he would channel

1744
01:13:00,020 --> 01:12:55,739
supposedly the space brothers and then

1745
01:13:02,660 --> 01:13:00,030
there was George hunt Williamson who did

1746
01:13:05,000 --> 01:13:02,670
very much the same thing George hunt

1747
01:13:07,550 --> 01:13:05,010
Williamson was one of the supposedly one

1748
01:13:10,550 --> 01:13:07,560
of the witnesses to the original George

1749
01:13:12,320 --> 01:13:10,560
Adamski contact Georgia ganske was the

1750
01:13:15,080 --> 01:13:12,330
famous probably the most famous contact

1751
01:13:19,070 --> 01:13:15,090
D they claimed he contacted the Venusian

1752
01:13:22,370 --> 01:13:19,080
or thon in the desert back in 52 I think

1753
01:13:24,770 --> 01:13:22,380
but it's interesting that and then you

1754
01:13:26,810 --> 01:13:24,780
come up to more recent times not

1755
01:13:28,129 --> 01:13:26,820
terribly recent but I don't know if

1756
01:13:31,879 --> 01:13:28,139
you're familiar with the law of one

1757
01:13:34,070 --> 01:13:31,889
books raw the it was Karl arucard

1758
01:13:37,970 --> 01:13:34,080
channeled supposedly channeled raw and

1759
01:13:41,810 --> 01:13:37,980
other beings and Don Elkins was the

1760
01:13:44,899 --> 01:13:41,820
facilitator and they when you when you

1761
01:13:47,360 --> 01:13:44,909
analyze a lot of these different allege

1762
01:13:49,070 --> 01:13:47,370
contacts the channeling it does seem

1763
01:13:50,870 --> 01:13:49,080
like something's really going on it's

1764
01:13:52,910 --> 01:13:50,880
coming it's not simply a matter of

1765
01:13:54,950 --> 01:13:52,920
delusion I think maybe it's at least

1766
01:13:57,500 --> 01:13:54,960
it's being pulled out of the I don't

1767
01:14:00,110 --> 01:13:57,510
know the superconscious or whatever but

1768
01:14:02,450 --> 01:14:00,120
a lot of the names of the entities keeps

1769
01:14:04,879 --> 01:14:02,460
showing up there are patterns and uh

1770
01:14:07,430 --> 01:14:04,889
like Ashtar that dude shows up

1771
01:14:09,260 --> 01:14:07,440
everywhere but so you wonder what's

1772
01:14:11,800 --> 01:14:09,270
going on and some of the themes are the

1773
01:14:13,970 --> 01:14:11,810
same you get this the theme about how

1774
01:14:15,770 --> 01:14:13,980
and from different people that don't

1775
01:14:19,399 --> 01:14:15,780
know each other and generationally apart

1776
01:14:21,110 --> 01:14:19,409
that the the entities from Orion those

1777
01:14:22,939 --> 01:14:21,120
are the bad guys you don't want to mess

1778
01:14:25,700 --> 01:14:22,949
with them but the good guys all come

1779
01:14:28,070 --> 01:14:25,710
from the Pleiades a lot of them talk

1780
01:14:30,110 --> 01:14:28,080
about Maldek which was the planet

1781
01:14:33,080 --> 01:14:30,120
supposedly between Mars and Jupiter that

1782
01:14:35,300 --> 01:14:33,090
blew up somehow and became the asteroid

1783
01:14:37,129 --> 01:14:35,310
belt so it's very it's just very

1784
01:14:39,830 --> 01:14:37,139
interesting to look at some of that

1785
01:14:45,669 --> 01:14:39,840
stuff yeah there's some really bizarre

1786
01:14:51,290 --> 01:14:45,679
takes on the cosmos for sure back then

1787
01:14:54,890 --> 01:14:51,300
and do you think I just stopped

1788
01:14:57,590 --> 01:14:54,900
something I read it was actually the

1789
01:15:00,950 --> 01:14:57,600
blog that was written for my for my

1790
01:15:02,419 --> 01:15:00,960
website from Charles Lear that just

1791
01:15:05,030 --> 01:15:02,429
wrote it he's actually talking about

1792
01:15:07,970 --> 01:15:05,040
kind of like modern-day contact these I

1793
01:15:09,080 --> 01:15:07,980
think there's a woman named Mary Bishop

1794
01:15:11,629 --> 01:15:09,090
I think that's her name

1795
01:15:14,840 --> 01:15:11,639
in California are you following any of

1796
01:15:16,970 --> 01:15:14,850
that no but I know I know that there are

1797
01:15:19,810 --> 01:15:16,980
modern-day and some of these some of the

1798
01:15:22,610 --> 01:15:19,820
cases are almost like hybrids between

1799
01:15:24,470 --> 01:15:22,620
abduction experiences and contactees I

1800
01:15:28,189 --> 01:15:24,480
think you could say the the Betty

1801
01:15:31,399 --> 01:15:28,199
Andreasen context investigated by a

1802
01:15:35,000 --> 01:15:31,409
follower are are I'm not an expert on

1803
01:15:36,709 --> 01:15:35,010
her by any means but but there are yeah

1804
01:15:39,950 --> 01:15:36,719
they still continue to this day

1805
01:15:41,479 --> 01:15:39,960
and you know some of them some people

1806
01:15:43,970 --> 01:15:41,489
have said that some of these especially

1807
01:15:45,229 --> 01:15:43,980
the ones back in the 50s and 60s may

1808
01:15:48,590 --> 01:15:45,239
have been some kind of government

1809
01:15:50,899 --> 01:15:48,600
manipulation a gentleman named Orfeo

1810
01:15:53,510 --> 01:15:50,909
Engel Lucy was one of the other famous

1811
01:15:56,810 --> 01:15:53,520
contactees that was suggested that he

1812
01:15:58,280 --> 01:15:56,820
was again I have no idea that suggested

1813
01:16:00,709 --> 01:15:58,290
that he was

1814
01:16:03,589 --> 01:16:00,719
given LSD or something like that and

1815
01:16:05,839 --> 01:16:03,599
some of his experiences were induced but

1816
01:16:09,740 --> 01:16:05,849
let me give you another interesting

1817
01:16:12,200 --> 01:16:09,750
pattern here okay and Jeffrey's in the

1818
01:16:14,240 --> 01:16:12,210
1600s she had talked about these

1819
01:16:16,790 --> 01:16:14,250
incredible encounters with a little

1820
01:16:20,149 --> 01:16:16,800
people very detailed not just dreamlike

1821
01:16:22,669 --> 01:16:20,159
but very realistic well the thing is she

1822
01:16:25,250 --> 01:16:22,679
hadn't didn't go anywhere she was in a

1823
01:16:27,830 --> 01:16:25,260
trance state in her room when all these

1824
01:16:29,930 --> 01:16:27,840
things happened again this Orfeo Angelou

1825
01:16:31,790 --> 01:16:29,940
see he claimed that he had some real

1826
01:16:33,859 --> 01:16:31,800
contacts where he saw the craft and

1827
01:16:35,990 --> 01:16:33,869
talked to the entities or whatever the

1828
01:16:37,970 --> 01:16:36,000
beautiful space brothers again but he

1829
01:16:39,950 --> 01:16:37,980
would go into trances for long periods

1830
01:16:42,890 --> 01:16:39,960
of time on his couch at home and have

1831
01:16:45,410 --> 01:16:42,900
more of these incredible experiences

1832
01:16:48,430 --> 01:16:45,420
with these space brothers and then

1833
01:16:50,990 --> 01:16:48,440
recently it was a really fascinating

1834
01:16:53,390 --> 01:16:51,000
contact case and another one of these

1835
01:16:55,490 --> 01:16:53,400
where all kinds of different things

1836
01:16:57,410 --> 01:16:55,500
happened from hauntings the shadow

1837
01:17:01,430 --> 01:16:57,420
people too so forth and this took place

1838
01:17:03,859 --> 01:17:01,440
in north east Wales and the Sutherland

1839
01:17:06,080 --> 01:17:03,869
family Gaynor Sutherland the one young

1840
01:17:08,899 --> 01:17:06,090
lady she and one of her siblings they

1841
01:17:10,850 --> 01:17:08,909
were actually talking about they were

1842
01:17:13,189 --> 01:17:10,860
put under hypnosis as well having

1843
01:17:15,910 --> 01:17:13,199
contact with these odd-looking humanoids

1844
01:17:18,830 --> 01:17:15,920
kind of tall and angular looking but not

1845
01:17:22,010 --> 01:17:18,840
not like greys or anything like that but

1846
01:17:23,629 --> 01:17:22,020
then one time she had this experience

1847
01:17:26,089 --> 01:17:23,639
where she felt like she went out of body

1848
01:17:27,799 --> 01:17:26,099
and went down a tunnel and then talked

1849
01:17:29,720 --> 01:17:27,809
to these people again and had these long

1850
01:17:30,859 --> 01:17:29,730
conversations well during that

1851
01:17:33,169 --> 01:17:30,869
particular incident

1852
01:17:35,870 --> 01:17:33,179
her mother had gone upstairs and seen

1853
01:17:38,060 --> 01:17:35,880
her she was in a obviously in some kind

1854
01:17:41,540 --> 01:17:38,070
of a trance she was her body was rigid

1855
01:17:43,250 --> 01:17:41,550
her arms were by her side so she was

1856
01:17:45,439 --> 01:17:43,260
having a this one of these in quotes

1857
01:17:48,080 --> 01:17:45,449
real experiences but she didn't go

1858
01:17:49,700 --> 01:17:48,090
anywhere either you are you familiar

1859
01:17:51,470 --> 01:17:49,710
with many of the abduction experiences

1860
01:17:53,149 --> 01:17:51,480
where people think they were floated

1861
01:17:55,819 --> 01:17:53,159
through walls or up through the ceiling

1862
01:17:57,859 --> 01:17:55,829
or whatever perhaps in some of these

1863
01:17:59,240 --> 01:17:57,869
perhaps they're there it's a real

1864
01:18:00,200 --> 01:17:59,250
experience but they aren't going

1865
01:18:02,209 --> 01:18:00,210
anywhere

1866
01:18:04,100 --> 01:18:02,219
there is all I'm you know in a mental

1867
01:18:07,339 --> 01:18:04,110
state somehow not something they've

1868
01:18:10,490 --> 01:18:07,349
necessarily created but something you

1869
01:18:11,930 --> 01:18:10,500
know external but not physical in the in

1870
01:18:15,200 --> 01:18:11,940
the sense of actually

1871
01:18:18,710 --> 01:18:15,210
being you know taken up into a UFO right

1872
01:18:22,340 --> 01:18:18,720
there's that one case in Manhattan where

1873
01:18:25,010 --> 01:18:22,350
supposedly people saw someone come out

1874
01:18:26,660 --> 01:18:25,020
through a wall and go into it yes I

1875
01:18:29,270 --> 01:18:26,670
think that was a Budd Hopkins in

1876
01:18:32,120 --> 01:18:29,280
restoration yeah yeah yeah that's an

1877
01:18:34,790 --> 01:18:32,130
interesting one but yeah now you there

1878
01:18:36,620 --> 01:18:34,800
was a particular abduction case you

1879
01:18:38,570 --> 01:18:36,630
wanted to speak about was that one you

1880
01:18:40,490 --> 01:18:38,580
just mentioned yet or something else no

1881
01:18:43,760 --> 01:18:40,500
no this is one a young lady

1882
01:18:45,350 --> 01:18:43,770
Missy la montagne contacted me almost

1883
01:18:47,570 --> 01:18:45,360
two years ago now and recently I

1884
01:18:51,320 --> 01:18:47,580
interviewed her on my show which is the

1885
01:18:54,430 --> 01:18:51,330
high strangeness factor on paranormal UK

1886
01:18:58,220 --> 01:18:54,440
radio and we had talked several times

1887
01:19:01,520 --> 01:18:58,230
over the couple years she she had this

1888
01:19:03,260 --> 01:19:01,530
experience where she and her husband was

1889
01:19:07,010 --> 01:19:03,270
standing now she lives in New Hampton

1890
01:19:08,150 --> 01:19:07,020
New Hampshire she was standing they were

1891
01:19:10,100 --> 01:19:08,160
standing on the porch early in the

1892
01:19:12,320 --> 01:19:10,110
morning seeing these strange lights come

1893
01:19:13,460 --> 01:19:12,330
over they live near an airport but

1894
01:19:15,980 --> 01:19:13,470
they're very familiar with the

1895
01:19:19,010 --> 01:19:15,990
traditional conventional lights of

1896
01:19:20,690 --> 01:19:19,020
aircraft and all of a sudden they

1897
01:19:23,530 --> 01:19:20,700
noticed that they had been standing next

1898
01:19:25,790 --> 01:19:23,540
to each other and now they're apart by

1899
01:19:27,830 --> 01:19:25,800
cross you know standing on each side of

1900
01:19:30,980 --> 01:19:27,840
the porch and they look up and they see

1901
01:19:33,560 --> 01:19:30,990
this large black triangle so low it's

1902
01:19:36,980 --> 01:19:33,570
brushing the tops of the trees and that

1903
01:19:38,120 --> 01:19:36,990
it and before it even left it sits this

1904
01:19:40,610 --> 01:19:38,130
is something that happens in a lot of

1905
01:19:42,140 --> 01:19:40,620
cases as well they didn't think anything

1906
01:19:44,000 --> 01:19:42,150
of it at the time they just turned

1907
01:19:45,860 --> 01:19:44,010
around and went back to bed because it

1908
01:19:48,650 --> 01:19:45,870
was early in the morning was later on

1909
01:19:50,120 --> 01:19:48,660
they realized what the heck was that and

1910
01:19:52,070 --> 01:19:50,130
that she realized that they were missing

1911
01:19:56,000 --> 01:19:52,080
some time because they didn't realize it

1912
01:19:58,850 --> 01:19:56,010
before so what I did was now she she

1913
01:20:01,610 --> 01:19:58,860
tried to make a get a breakthrough

1914
01:20:04,190 --> 01:20:01,620
through regressive hypnosis but was not

1915
01:20:07,310 --> 01:20:04,200
successful at that time so when I talked

1916
01:20:10,760 --> 01:20:07,320
to her I asked her several what I call

1917
01:20:13,040 --> 01:20:10,770
John keel questions now John keel had a

1918
01:20:15,500 --> 01:20:13,050
catch phrase and he said ask the

1919
01:20:17,540 --> 01:20:15,510
experiencer essentially what did they

1920
01:20:20,810 --> 01:20:17,550
have for breakfast and what he meant was

1921
01:20:22,520 --> 01:20:20,820
find out about the individual and he

1922
01:20:25,320 --> 01:20:22,530
found that people that were having these

1923
01:20:26,730 --> 01:20:25,330
experiences were having all kinds of

1924
01:20:28,680 --> 01:20:26,740
other things going on in their house

1925
01:20:31,680 --> 01:20:28,690
some would would actually have

1926
01:20:33,570 --> 01:20:31,690
encounters by med and black poltergeist

1927
01:20:36,600 --> 01:20:33,580
phenomena outbreak in their house

1928
01:20:38,820 --> 01:20:36,610
electronic phenomena going crazy and so

1929
01:20:42,090 --> 01:20:38,830
forth so I asked her a series of

1930
01:20:45,120 --> 01:20:42,100
questions and I found out that she had

1931
01:20:48,500 --> 01:20:45,130
experienced shadow people both her sons

1932
01:20:50,700 --> 01:20:48,510
were experiencing orb phenomena one

1933
01:20:53,340 --> 01:20:50,710
would see it out his window at night

1934
01:20:55,830 --> 01:20:53,350
these orange orbs dancing around another

1935
01:20:58,950 --> 01:20:55,840
one had the orb come it was in he was in

1936
01:21:02,940 --> 01:20:58,960
the house it came up to him and circled

1937
01:21:04,230 --> 01:21:02,950
him and then took off and I I asked her

1938
01:21:05,970 --> 01:21:04,240
I said look this is going to be a

1939
01:21:08,550 --> 01:21:05,980
strange question but I knew that

1940
01:21:10,560 --> 01:21:08,560
sometimes people that according to Kegel

1941
01:21:12,660 --> 01:21:10,570
anyway that would have these experiences

1942
01:21:15,180 --> 01:21:12,670
would have other kinds of experiences

1943
01:21:17,280 --> 01:21:15,190
and I said did you ever see anything

1944
01:21:19,830 --> 01:21:17,290
like a Bigfoot or some kind of a strange

1945
01:21:21,900 --> 01:21:19,840
animal and she said well no and she said

1946
01:21:24,870 --> 01:21:21,910
well wait a minute my mother-in-law and

1947
01:21:26,970 --> 01:21:24,880
sister-in-law and they saw something

1948
01:21:29,810 --> 01:21:26,980
near the property and they described it

1949
01:21:32,730 --> 01:21:29,820
as a sort of a panther like creature

1950
01:21:34,830 --> 01:21:32,740
standing on two legs it was standing

1951
01:21:37,320 --> 01:21:34,840
next to a tree when it saw them it took

1952
01:21:40,020 --> 01:21:37,330
off some other members of the family saw

1953
01:21:43,230 --> 01:21:40,030
the same thing at a different time so

1954
01:21:47,340 --> 01:21:43,240
the point here is that if I was frozen

1955
01:21:49,530 --> 01:21:47,350
in my frame of mind in the 1960s I

1956
01:21:51,090 --> 01:21:49,540
wouldn't have gone that far to find out

1957
01:21:54,000 --> 01:21:51,100
the other things that she had

1958
01:21:56,100 --> 01:21:54,010
experienced but it turns so but not

1959
01:21:58,410 --> 01:21:56,110
later on that this gets weirder she

1960
01:22:03,750 --> 01:21:58,420
finally made a breakthrough and she had

1961
01:22:05,520 --> 01:22:03,760
a she she had a I couldn't earn the name

1962
01:22:07,130 --> 01:22:05,530
of the gentleman so they she had she was

1963
01:22:12,380 --> 01:22:07,140
fortunate she had a really good group

1964
01:22:15,770 --> 01:22:12,390
come and and help her out but but she

1965
01:22:18,180 --> 01:22:15,780
sought through her doctor she did find a

1966
01:22:20,030 --> 01:22:18,190
psychotherapist that would regress her

1967
01:22:23,070 --> 01:22:20,040
as she finally made a breakthrough and

1968
01:22:25,350 --> 01:22:23,080
she was it was classic she was felt like

1969
01:22:27,870 --> 01:22:25,360
she was taken up into this craft there

1970
01:22:31,980 --> 01:22:27,880
were two sort of pale looking Gray's to

1971
01:22:33,660 --> 01:22:31,990
her left there was a very strange

1972
01:22:35,730 --> 01:22:33,670
looking almost spider-like creature

1973
01:22:37,470 --> 01:22:35,740
toward her feet that she could just

1974
01:22:40,620 --> 01:22:37,480
barely describe but

1975
01:22:44,130 --> 01:22:40,630
right was almost a was a female presence

1976
01:22:46,410 --> 01:22:44,140
very tall and almost angelic very and

1977
01:22:47,870 --> 01:22:46,420
she was trying to calm her saying don't

1978
01:22:50,610 --> 01:22:47,880
worry you've been through this before

1979
01:22:52,770 --> 01:22:50,620
everything's going to be fine one thing

1980
01:22:54,180 --> 01:22:52,780
that struck me and Joshua Cochin pointed

1981
01:22:57,870 --> 01:22:54,190
this out in his book thieves in the

1982
01:22:59,910 --> 01:22:57,880
night that the in the fairy abductions a

1983
01:23:02,670 --> 01:22:59,920
lot of times there is the fairy queen

1984
01:23:05,580 --> 01:23:02,680
the tall woman and then the the uglier

1985
01:23:07,800 --> 01:23:05,590
shorter fairies or whatever in the same

1986
01:23:09,840 --> 01:23:07,810
area whitley strieber talks about

1987
01:23:11,610 --> 01:23:09,850
something like this with this tall sort

1988
01:23:13,680 --> 01:23:11,620
of female presence I don't know if

1989
01:23:17,220 --> 01:23:13,690
there's a connection or not but possibly

1990
01:23:20,010 --> 01:23:17,230
so anyway she was very very credible

1991
01:23:22,590 --> 01:23:20,020
witness and she's very very

1992
01:23:24,360 --> 01:23:22,600
philosophical about it she she takes the

1993
01:23:26,400 --> 01:23:24,370
you know since she doesn't really

1994
01:23:28,229 --> 01:23:26,410
remember what happened to her she takes

1995
01:23:31,470 --> 01:23:28,239
it with a grain of salt she doesn't know

1996
01:23:33,570 --> 01:23:31,480
if it's real or not but it's just it's

1997
01:23:35,430 --> 01:23:33,580
very interesting I'm suggesting to

1998
01:23:37,050 --> 01:23:35,440
people that when they do their

1999
01:23:39,600 --> 01:23:37,060
investigation a friend of mine Brian

2000
01:23:42,330 --> 01:23:39,610
seach he's a primarily a cryptid Bigfoot

2001
01:23:45,150 --> 01:23:42,340
researcher he was out in Pennsylvania in

2002
01:23:49,500 --> 01:23:45,160
an area where people have have seen

2003
01:23:51,690 --> 01:23:49,510
Bigfoot and heard the creature he saw a

2004
01:23:53,790 --> 01:23:51,700
classic UFO one night a strange

2005
01:23:56,729 --> 01:23:53,800
reentering light that was moving around

2006
01:23:58,890 --> 01:23:56,739
in unusual patterns it disappeared it

2007
01:24:02,340 --> 01:23:58,900
reappears so he goes out looking for a

2008
01:24:05,010 --> 01:24:02,350
Bigfoot and sees a classic UFO the thing

2009
01:24:07,380 --> 01:24:05,020
is that it seems like there is these

2010
01:24:10,530 --> 01:24:07,390
things are connected and there's amazing

2011
01:24:14,010 --> 01:24:10,540
patterns rosemary ellen guiley is the

2012
01:24:16,290 --> 01:24:14,020
one that when she was she was

2013
01:24:18,000 --> 01:24:16,300
investigating shadow people she found

2014
01:24:19,790 --> 01:24:18,010
out that a significant percentage of

2015
01:24:22,530 --> 01:24:19,800
people that were experiencing these

2016
01:24:26,010 --> 01:24:22,540
beings or apparitions or whatever were

2017
01:24:28,350 --> 01:24:26,020
also classic alien abductees how do you

2018
01:24:28,890 --> 01:24:28,360
how do we you know what's what's going

2019
01:24:30,060 --> 01:24:28,900
on here

2020
01:24:32,090 --> 01:24:30,070
well one thing I want to say very

2021
01:24:34,979 --> 01:24:32,100
quickly well I think there's a very

2022
01:24:37,200 --> 01:24:34,989
elusive paranormal aspect to a lot of

2023
01:24:39,510 --> 01:24:37,210
this and for a time I thought we were

2024
01:24:41,970 --> 01:24:39,520
dealing with something like a planetary

2025
01:24:43,770 --> 01:24:41,980
poltergeist where we weren't really

2026
01:24:47,220 --> 01:24:43,780
dealing with aliens at all that perhaps

2027
01:24:50,250 --> 01:24:47,230
they were you know transmogrification of

2028
01:24:50,520 --> 01:24:50,260
energy or or pair of physical you know

2029
01:24:53,129 --> 01:24:50,530
just

2030
01:24:56,250 --> 01:24:53,139
temporarily real I think there's a lot

2031
01:24:58,709 --> 01:24:56,260
to that there's but I also believe that

2032
01:25:02,180 --> 01:24:58,719
we are certainly dealing with some other

2033
01:25:05,189 --> 01:25:02,190
intelligence there are other other

2034
01:25:07,649 --> 01:25:05,199
encounters that are just not easily

2035
01:25:10,529 --> 01:25:07,659
explained like that so there seems to be

2036
01:25:12,779 --> 01:25:10,539
this incredible duality going on where

2037
01:25:14,819 --> 01:25:12,789
we do have a real physicality and some

2038
01:25:17,910 --> 01:25:14,829
and perhaps a whole Grand Central

2039
01:25:20,459 --> 01:25:17,920
Station of different entities out there

2040
01:25:22,439 --> 01:25:20,469
in intermingling with us but there's

2041
01:25:25,770 --> 01:25:22,449
also this aspect of human consciousness

2042
01:25:29,790 --> 01:25:25,780
that is reflective and some people call

2043
01:25:32,729 --> 01:25:29,800
it paranormal mimicry but so anyway it's

2044
01:25:34,859 --> 01:25:32,739
I tell another thing I tell people is

2045
01:25:36,870 --> 01:25:34,869
you've seen I'm sure the original Planet

2046
01:25:39,390 --> 01:25:36,880
of the Apes with Charlton Heston

2047
01:25:41,310 --> 01:25:39,400
remember the scene where he's in prison

2048
01:25:43,830 --> 01:25:41,320
and the gorilla is hosing him down with

2049
01:25:46,200 --> 01:25:43,840
the water and he's screaming it's a

2050
01:25:47,549 --> 01:25:46,210
madhouse that's where I get to sometimes

2051
01:25:49,140 --> 01:25:47,559
when I'm trying to pull all this

2052
01:25:53,760 --> 01:25:49,150
together I want to scream it's a

2053
01:25:56,959 --> 01:25:53,770
madhouse let's see the group that you

2054
01:25:58,830 --> 01:25:56,969
were talking about that helped him out

2055
01:26:02,479 --> 01:25:58,840
helped her out I'm sorry

2056
01:26:05,010 --> 01:26:02,489
is it the foundation for research into

2057
01:26:08,250 --> 01:26:05,020
extraterrestrial and extraordinary that

2058
01:26:10,770 --> 01:26:08,260
that great Hernandez has involved in is

2059
01:26:13,560 --> 01:26:10,780
that the one I don't think so it's a

2060
01:26:17,189 --> 01:26:13,570
different one local in in the Manchester

2061
01:26:18,359 --> 01:26:17,199
area yeah but but she was like I said I

2062
01:26:21,209 --> 01:26:18,369
wish I could remember the name right now

2063
01:26:23,189 --> 01:26:21,219
but she was very fortunate to have you

2064
01:26:24,870 --> 01:26:23,199
know you can get when you seek help for

2065
01:26:25,620 --> 01:26:24,880
this kind of thing you don't know who

2066
01:26:28,649 --> 01:26:25,630
you're gonna get

2067
01:26:31,620 --> 01:26:28,659
you know yeah and and I'm not sure I

2068
01:26:33,660 --> 01:26:31,630
would be very qualified in certain areas

2069
01:26:38,040 --> 01:26:33,670
to help people depending on what the

2070
01:26:41,339 --> 01:26:38,050
situation is but yeah she was was she's

2071
01:26:45,089 --> 01:26:41,349
just fascinating talk to her a month or

2072
01:26:45,779 --> 01:26:45,099
so ago and yeah she really really is an

2073
01:26:49,740 --> 01:26:45,789
amazing lady

2074
01:26:52,350 --> 01:26:49,750
yeah I've questioned - it seems very

2075
01:26:54,299 --> 01:26:52,360
peculiar that you know these people have

2076
01:26:56,279 --> 01:26:54,309
the same thing happen over and over

2077
01:26:59,399 --> 01:26:56,289
again and then in their family lines and

2078
01:27:01,470 --> 01:26:59,409
all that it's absolutely bizarre there's

2079
01:27:03,060 --> 01:27:01,480
also a lot of commonalities I think

2080
01:27:05,010 --> 01:27:03,070
that's what I find the most fascinating

2081
01:27:07,680 --> 01:27:05,020
part of

2082
01:27:10,530 --> 01:27:07,690
you know speaking to people like caffee

2083
01:27:13,050 --> 01:27:10,540
Martin and you know just the

2084
01:27:15,900 --> 01:27:13,060
commonalities makes it fascinating

2085
01:27:18,120 --> 01:27:15,910
whatever it is that it's happening you

2086
01:27:19,500 --> 01:27:18,130
know and some of it just like what we're

2087
01:27:23,430 --> 01:27:19,510
talking about tonight some of it could

2088
01:27:24,780 --> 01:27:23,440
be you know sleep paralysis oh sure you

2089
01:27:28,800 --> 01:27:24,790
know things like that it could be

2090
01:27:31,709 --> 01:27:28,810
something you know imagined also but

2091
01:27:35,190 --> 01:27:31,719
some people seem pretty devastated by

2092
01:27:37,080 --> 01:27:35,200
the happenings of it and and and it's

2093
01:27:39,390 --> 01:27:37,090
funny at some of the conference's they

2094
01:27:41,670 --> 01:27:39,400
have like a group meeting almost like

2095
01:27:44,340 --> 01:27:41,680
almost like a group therapy just to talk

2096
01:27:47,280 --> 01:27:44,350
among themselves and it seems to to help

2097
01:27:49,620 --> 01:27:47,290
them well there are so many so many

2098
01:27:51,630 --> 01:27:49,630
mysteries you know I mentioned the greys

2099
01:27:55,320 --> 01:27:51,640
the greys didn't really seem to show up

2100
01:27:58,620 --> 01:27:55,330
in mass until I don't know late 70s

2101
01:28:00,690 --> 01:27:58,630
early 80s especially with the the advent

2102
01:28:04,170 --> 01:28:00,700
of the Britney streamer books there are

2103
01:28:05,670 --> 01:28:04,180
some earlier experiences where the

2104
01:28:07,229 --> 01:28:05,680
entities maybe looked a little bit like

2105
01:28:09,660 --> 01:28:07,239
a grey even even the Betty and Barney

2106
01:28:11,610 --> 01:28:09,670
Hill aliens weren't really greys it was

2107
01:28:14,130 --> 01:28:11,620
almost like the greys would have been a

2108
01:28:17,640 --> 01:28:14,140
sort of a counterfeit of them or if they

2109
01:28:19,560 --> 01:28:17,650
were to make a sort of an image of

2110
01:28:21,959 --> 01:28:19,570
themselves more like a doll or whatever

2111
01:28:23,550 --> 01:28:21,969
it would come out like a grey because

2112
01:28:25,200 --> 01:28:23,560
they look quite a bit different and if

2113
01:28:28,740 --> 01:28:25,210
you go back in the literature from the

2114
01:28:31,020 --> 01:28:28,750
late 40s 50s 60s there was a variety of

2115
01:28:33,810 --> 01:28:31,030
aliens or whatever you want to call them

2116
01:28:36,840 --> 01:28:33,820
think of the Pascagoula androids or

2117
01:28:38,820 --> 01:28:36,850
whatever they were there so many of

2118
01:28:41,400 --> 01:28:38,830
these a lot of them were actually if you

2119
01:28:43,500 --> 01:28:41,410
if you took all took away their silver

2120
01:28:45,510 --> 01:28:43,510
suit and gave them a little little red

2121
01:28:48,360 --> 01:28:45,520
cap and green outfit would look

2122
01:28:50,040 --> 01:28:48,370
identical to the fairies but there was

2123
01:28:51,780 --> 01:28:50,050
such a variety I mean there was the

2124
01:28:56,900 --> 01:28:51,790
Antonio Villas Boas

2125
01:28:59,880 --> 01:28:56,910
lady there was the so many different

2126
01:29:02,070 --> 01:28:59,890
types of aliens and then you wonder okay

2127
01:29:05,100 --> 01:29:02,080
why did it change that it doesn't mean

2128
01:29:07,140 --> 01:29:05,110
that literally the greys were the new

2129
01:29:09,330 --> 01:29:07,150
kids on the block and aced out most of

2130
01:29:13,770 --> 01:29:09,340
the other ones or are we dealing with a

2131
01:29:16,800 --> 01:29:13,780
a perception or a facade or you know

2132
01:29:18,000 --> 01:29:16,810
it's something else changing going on so

2133
01:29:20,790 --> 01:29:18,010
these things are all were

2134
01:29:22,910 --> 01:29:20,800
considering to try and and and sort

2135
01:29:26,729 --> 01:29:22,920
through just what is going on right

2136
01:29:29,129 --> 01:29:26,739
right um so you followed this for

2137
01:29:32,129 --> 01:29:29,139
decades you know though yes the whole

2138
01:29:35,310 --> 01:29:32,139
thing and what what what are some of the

2139
01:29:36,589 --> 01:29:35,320
changes that you've seen that are good

2140
01:29:41,279 --> 01:29:36,599
and some of the changes that you've seen

2141
01:29:43,830 --> 01:29:41,289
are bad I in the investigation

2142
01:29:46,080 --> 01:29:43,840
techniques are in the UFO field

2143
01:29:48,029 --> 01:29:46,090
you know I'm thinking off the top you

2144
01:29:50,370 --> 01:29:48,039
know the internet is like a double-edged

2145
01:29:52,080 --> 01:29:50,380
sword and that sure that can't along up

2146
01:29:54,450 --> 01:29:52,090
while you were doing your you know

2147
01:29:56,939 --> 01:29:54,460
looking into this topic and a lots

2148
01:29:59,459 --> 01:29:56,949
changed since then you know well I I

2149
01:30:02,399 --> 01:29:59,469
think that you know there's some pretty

2150
01:30:04,379 --> 01:30:02,409
good I went to a UFO contact event in

2151
01:30:07,439 --> 01:30:04,389
Houghton Lake Michigan last September

2152
01:30:09,060 --> 01:30:07,449
that was a really well done event

2153
01:30:11,069 --> 01:30:09,070
unfortunately this year it's the same

2154
01:30:12,689 --> 01:30:11,079
weekend it's the Mothman festival so I

2155
01:30:16,319 --> 01:30:12,699
won't be making that but there are some

2156
01:30:17,850 --> 01:30:16,329
really good very positive people out

2157
01:30:20,370 --> 01:30:17,860
there doing good things along with all

2158
01:30:25,859 --> 01:30:20,380
the negative stuff I think one thing I

2159
01:30:27,990 --> 01:30:25,869
see is that the people are making the

2160
01:30:31,350 --> 01:30:28,000
transition whether they're a Bigfoot

2161
01:30:34,020 --> 01:30:31,360
researcher cryptid UFO or whatever they

2162
01:30:36,120 --> 01:30:34,030
get to a point like John keel did you

2163
01:30:38,970 --> 01:30:36,130
know Jacques Vallee he started out as a

2164
01:30:42,089 --> 01:30:38,980
very nuts and bolts UFO researcher his

2165
01:30:45,810 --> 01:30:42,099
first two books anatomy of a phenomena

2166
01:30:47,939 --> 01:30:45,820
and challenge to science challenge to

2167
01:30:50,459 --> 01:30:47,949
science covered this incredible wave of

2168
01:30:53,520 --> 01:30:50,469
landings in France in the mid fifties

2169
01:30:54,240 --> 01:30:53,530
and then you know he he wrote passed for

2170
01:30:56,490 --> 01:30:54,250
it - magana

2171
01:30:58,379 --> 01:30:56,500
and he says it's like he hit a brick

2172
01:31:00,930 --> 01:30:58,389
wall and he said look this is not a

2173
01:31:02,609 --> 01:31:00,940
scientific book but people like John

2174
01:31:04,919 --> 01:31:02,619
keel started off the same way

2175
01:31:07,979 --> 01:31:04,929
nuts and bolts flying saucers so people

2176
01:31:12,209 --> 01:31:07,989
come to a point like I did I was very

2177
01:31:15,990 --> 01:31:12,219
happy with eg I and even another here's

2178
01:31:18,450 --> 01:31:16,000
another example Ron Morehead famous

2179
01:31:21,180 --> 01:31:18,460
Bigfoot researcher he's the one that

2180
01:31:24,270 --> 01:31:21,190
captured this Sierra sounds in this the

2181
01:31:26,129 --> 01:31:24,280
Sierra Nevadas which seemed to be

2182
01:31:29,850 --> 01:31:26,139
legitimate Bigfoot recordings they've

2183
01:31:31,649 --> 01:31:29,860
been examined by experts well he his

2184
01:31:33,779 --> 01:31:31,659
second book he wrote was called

2185
01:31:36,299 --> 01:31:33,789
quantum Bigfoot he's come to believe

2186
01:31:38,549 --> 01:31:36,309
that Bigfoot is somehow interdimensional

2187
01:31:40,679 --> 01:31:38,559
and actually phases in and out somehow

2188
01:31:43,589 --> 01:31:40,689
and then I'm sure disappointed a lot of

2189
01:31:45,899 --> 01:31:43,599
the flesh-and-blood guys so the one

2190
01:31:49,229 --> 01:31:45,909
positive thing I see in general is that

2191
01:31:51,659 --> 01:31:49,239
people are at least a little more open

2192
01:31:54,540 --> 01:31:51,669
to the possibilities to the patterns and

2193
01:31:57,060 --> 01:31:54,550
seeing that you know why is it that I

2194
01:31:59,850 --> 01:31:57,070
mean I've talked to people like Stan

2195
01:32:01,529 --> 01:31:59,860
Gordon and rosemary ellen guiley and

2196
01:32:02,969 --> 01:32:01,539
they've told me that they they've

2197
01:32:05,339 --> 01:32:02,979
interviewed people that were interviewed

2198
01:32:07,739 --> 01:32:05,349
previously by other researchers and the

2199
01:32:09,659 --> 01:32:07,749
other researchers would tell them no no

2200
01:32:10,859 --> 01:32:09,669
I want to hear about your Bigfoot report

2201
01:32:13,379 --> 01:32:10,869
I don't want to hear about the UFO you

2202
01:32:15,330 --> 01:32:13,389
saw and vice versa you know I don't want

2203
01:32:17,459 --> 01:32:15,340
to hear about the hairy that hairy biped

2204
01:32:18,540 --> 01:32:17,469
I want to hear about the the craft from

2205
01:32:21,209 --> 01:32:18,550
Alpha Centauri

2206
01:32:24,149 --> 01:32:21,219
so there were they would find that

2207
01:32:26,609 --> 01:32:24,159
people weren't ready to look at the

2208
01:32:29,489 --> 01:32:26,619
possibility that there's some interface

2209
01:32:32,069 --> 01:32:29,499
somehow so I guess that's the most

2210
01:32:34,109 --> 01:32:32,079
positive thing I I see that more and

2211
01:32:35,399 --> 01:32:34,119
more people even know of a gentleman

2212
01:32:38,689 --> 01:32:35,409
that was looking into the dog man

2213
01:32:42,509 --> 01:32:38,699
phenomena and who was very very set on

2214
01:32:45,390 --> 01:32:42,519
on a very physical flesh and blood

2215
01:32:47,459 --> 01:32:45,400
approach what has started to think well

2216
01:32:49,259 --> 01:32:47,469
maybe there is something that doesn't

2217
01:32:55,399 --> 01:32:49,269
quite fit that maybe there's something

2218
01:33:00,120 --> 01:32:55,409
else going on interesting yeah I've had

2219
01:33:02,189 --> 01:33:00,130
Nick uh I'm trying his last name Redford

2220
01:33:04,919 --> 01:33:02,199
yeah yeah yes so a number of times

2221
01:33:06,509 --> 01:33:04,929
that's his more of his passion than UFOs

2222
01:33:08,839 --> 01:33:06,519
he'll they'll write about other things

2223
01:33:12,149 --> 01:33:08,849
but you know the cryptids are

2224
01:33:14,669 --> 01:33:12,159
fascinating and boy did he's got some

2225
01:33:17,489 --> 01:33:14,679
great stories well he's a he covered

2226
01:33:20,310 --> 01:33:17,499
Loch Ness he he picked up the mantle

2227
01:33:22,199 --> 01:33:20,320
from Ted holiday jet holiday wrote some

2228
01:33:23,159 --> 01:33:22,209
great books on Loch Ness and he's

2229
01:33:23,819 --> 01:33:23,169
another one that went through the

2230
01:33:26,969 --> 01:33:23,829
transition

2231
01:33:28,529 --> 01:33:26,979
he thought Nessie was a he thought it

2232
01:33:30,120 --> 01:33:28,539
was a when you looked at some of the

2233
01:33:33,899 --> 01:33:30,130
description was kind of an oversized

2234
01:33:37,080 --> 01:33:33,909
slug and then he that was the Great Orme

2235
01:33:39,600 --> 01:33:37,090
of Loch Ness okay or mean it was an

2236
01:33:41,909 --> 01:33:39,610
ancient word ORM was a an ancient word

2237
01:33:44,310 --> 01:33:41,919
for worm and then he wrote the dragon in

2238
01:33:45,270 --> 01:33:44,320
the disk because he found out that Loch

2239
01:33:48,839 --> 01:33:45,280
Ness was actually

2240
01:33:51,419 --> 01:33:48,849
a UFO hotspot there was all kinds of

2241
01:33:52,709 --> 01:33:51,429
things going on there and Nessie didn't

2242
01:33:54,390 --> 01:33:52,719
wasn't really acting like a

2243
01:33:58,200 --> 01:33:54,400
flesh-and-blood creature likes what like

2244
01:34:03,839 --> 01:33:58,210
something else was going on yeah yeah

2245
01:34:06,450 --> 01:34:03,849
and I guess as we know Nessie the

2246
01:34:09,779 --> 01:34:06,460
picture that famous picture had I

2247
01:34:12,060 --> 01:34:09,789
believe that's been kind of verified

2248
01:34:12,359 --> 01:34:12,070
that that's a hoax but I'm not yes I'm

2249
01:34:15,720 --> 01:34:12,369
sure

2250
01:34:18,149 --> 01:34:15,730
yeah I think so there was there was some

2251
01:34:22,290 --> 01:34:18,159
incredible land sightings that holiday

2252
01:34:24,330 --> 01:34:22,300
this is FW holiday he corresponded with

2253
01:34:26,129 --> 01:34:24,340
John keel by the way but there was some

2254
01:34:28,260 --> 01:34:26,139
bizarre sightings of the seeing it on

2255
01:34:30,629 --> 01:34:28,270
land and it was slithering more like a

2256
01:34:34,350 --> 01:34:30,639
giant worm or anything than a plesiosaur

2257
01:34:36,720 --> 01:34:34,360
and then holiday found out that there

2258
01:34:38,760 --> 01:34:36,730
were other lakes and locks that had very

2259
01:34:40,529 --> 01:34:38,770
similar creatures but they're very small

2260
01:34:42,390 --> 01:34:40,539
lakes of the fish population wasn't

2261
01:34:44,939 --> 01:34:42,400
anywhere near this size it would need to

2262
01:34:47,790 --> 01:34:44,949
feed one of these creatures much much

2263
01:34:49,350 --> 01:34:47,800
less in colony and then there was a in

2264
01:34:50,790 --> 01:34:49,360
Loch Ness and four years is about

2265
01:34:52,560 --> 01:34:50,800
halfway down the Loch

2266
01:34:59,189 --> 01:34:52,570
there was a Swedish journalist that was

2267
01:35:01,049 --> 01:34:59,199
doing a research on the unnecessary out

2268
01:35:02,970 --> 01:35:01,059
get close to the water and then he sees

2269
01:35:04,950 --> 01:35:02,980
this this thing that he thinks is a

2270
01:35:07,200 --> 01:35:04,960
submersible some kind of submarine and

2271
01:35:09,270 --> 01:35:07,210
with some divers standing next to it he

2272
01:35:11,339 --> 01:35:09,280
gets close everything Oh something weird

2273
01:35:14,069 --> 01:35:11,349
about these guys they're not divers they

2274
01:35:16,260 --> 01:35:14,079
get into this craft and it takes off he

2275
01:35:18,240 --> 01:35:16,270
goes back to Sweden and we don't know

2276
01:35:20,069 --> 01:35:18,250
the details but he wrote John keel that

2277
01:35:22,649 --> 01:35:20,079
when he goes back to write his article

2278
01:35:24,569 --> 01:35:22,659
he's plagued by a man in black and in

2279
01:35:29,939 --> 01:35:24,579
somewhere in Stockholm I guess it was

2280
01:35:32,189 --> 01:35:29,949
but so and then like I say Redfern and

2281
01:35:33,569 --> 01:35:32,199
here's the latest book uh he his book

2282
01:35:35,430 --> 01:35:33,579
has just been reprinted on Loch Ness

2283
01:35:38,160 --> 01:35:35,440
talks about how people have seen other

2284
01:35:41,819 --> 01:35:38,170
things in the Loch like a like something

2285
01:35:43,470 --> 01:35:41,829
like a crocodile with with tusks and you

2286
01:35:45,899 --> 01:35:43,480
know a kind it's weird because if you go

2287
01:35:47,520 --> 01:35:45,909
back to the history of Loch Ness it was

2288
01:35:49,950 --> 01:35:47,530
they believed something was in there for

2289
01:35:51,930 --> 01:35:49,960
centuries but they called it the kelpie

2290
01:35:54,720 --> 01:35:51,940
or the water horse and what was the

2291
01:35:57,660 --> 01:35:54,730
kelpie it was a shape-shifting evil

2292
01:35:59,100 --> 01:35:57,670
being of some sort and the more the more

2293
01:36:02,640 --> 01:35:59,110
that even Holliday got

2294
01:36:04,440 --> 01:36:02,650
to a with dr. Donald Ormond dr. Donald

2295
01:36:06,840 --> 01:36:04,450
Orman believed that Nestle was evil so

2296
01:36:09,000 --> 01:36:06,850
they did an exorcism over the lock in

2297
01:36:11,940 --> 01:36:09,010
all kinds of weird stuff happened

2298
01:36:14,070 --> 01:36:11,950
afterwards so it really it but again it

2299
01:36:16,800 --> 01:36:14,080
was Holliday himself saw starting to see

2300
01:36:18,630 --> 01:36:16,810
some strange lights in the sky so you

2301
01:36:21,450 --> 01:36:18,640
know we never think of lock NASA as

2302
01:36:25,140 --> 01:36:21,460
being a UFO hotspot but apparently it is

2303
01:36:26,820 --> 01:36:25,150
or was well we have time to take one

2304
01:36:28,830 --> 01:36:26,830
call if someone would like to call in

2305
01:36:32,010 --> 01:36:28,840
that number is six oh three nine six

2306
01:36:34,770 --> 01:36:32,020
seven four OH three oh and that's a show

2307
01:36:37,740 --> 01:36:34,780
number only it's not live during regular

2308
01:36:39,450 --> 01:36:37,750
hours it's just live on the show and we

2309
01:36:42,120 --> 01:36:39,460
have a whole new system coming on board

2310
01:36:44,760 --> 01:36:42,130
with a new phone number through kgr a

2311
01:36:46,320 --> 01:36:44,770
radio that'll be coming up on a while

2312
01:36:49,920 --> 01:36:46,330
I'll talk more about that it should be

2313
01:36:53,580 --> 01:36:49,930
really much smoother so anyone can call

2314
01:36:57,270 --> 01:36:53,590
in that line is open and so we have

2315
01:37:02,360 --> 01:36:57,280
about we have a I think about six or so

2316
01:37:06,870 --> 01:37:02,370
minutes left and what do you think if

2317
01:37:09,600 --> 01:37:06,880
you are asked this question what do you

2318
01:37:14,510 --> 01:37:09,610
think the possibilities of what we are

2319
01:37:18,720 --> 01:37:14,520
seeing in the skies are besides you know

2320
01:37:19,980 --> 01:37:18,730
explainable things I think that I've

2321
01:37:21,600 --> 01:37:19,990
come to believe that we are certainly

2322
01:37:24,020 --> 01:37:21,610
dealing with are there some other

2323
01:37:26,370 --> 01:37:24,030
intelligence you look at the bizarre

2324
01:37:30,270 --> 01:37:26,380
encounters that occurred in Brazil in

2325
01:37:33,330 --> 01:37:30,280
the late 70s early 80s covered by Robert

2326
01:37:35,670 --> 01:37:33,340
Pratt and other and Jack fillet for that

2327
01:37:37,590 --> 01:37:35,680
matter there's a real physicality to

2328
01:37:39,720 --> 01:37:37,600
some of it I mean it look if there's one

2329
01:37:41,790 --> 01:37:39,730
crash saucer and a lot of those stories

2330
01:37:44,940 --> 01:37:41,800
are dubious then that puts it in the

2331
01:37:48,870 --> 01:37:44,950
physical the alien implant aspect

2332
01:37:51,030 --> 01:37:48,880
doesn't seem like you can easily explain

2333
01:37:53,340 --> 01:37:51,040
that as a government interference but I

2334
01:37:56,760 --> 01:37:53,350
don't know so it seems like there's this

2335
01:37:57,840 --> 01:37:56,770
this interface between something about

2336
01:38:00,690 --> 01:37:57,850
human consciousness

2337
01:38:02,970 --> 01:38:00,700
and some other intelligence what if this

2338
01:38:05,250 --> 01:38:02,980
other intelligence is aware of this

2339
01:38:08,040 --> 01:38:05,260
aspect is hypothetical aspect of human

2340
01:38:10,380 --> 01:38:08,050
consciousness and can somehow use it and

2341
01:38:12,750 --> 01:38:10,390
exploit it it's a sort of master

2342
01:38:15,240 --> 01:38:12,760
activities or to manipulate

2343
01:38:17,730 --> 01:38:15,250
us so there's two major things going on

2344
01:38:19,350 --> 01:38:17,740
I think Wow okay well we have a caller

2345
01:38:20,270 --> 01:38:19,360
caller your name and where you're

2346
01:38:23,550 --> 01:38:20,280
calling from

2347
01:38:30,090 --> 01:38:23,560
great Stanford from Maryland

2348
01:38:33,060 --> 01:38:30,100
well raise around hi hi how are you ray

2349
01:38:36,690 --> 01:38:33,070
I saw you speak at the 1976 Miu fine

2350
01:38:38,880 --> 01:38:36,700
symposium in Ann Arbor Michigan that was

2351
01:38:41,220 --> 01:38:38,890
a while back okay we were both there I

2352
01:38:43,410 --> 01:38:41,230
guess that's yes that's right that's way

2353
01:38:45,330 --> 01:38:43,420
back good memory there yeah I was there

2354
01:38:47,520 --> 01:38:45,340
hey I thought I would quickly tell an

2355
01:38:49,680 --> 01:38:47,530
interesting thing related to the Antonio

2356
01:38:51,930 --> 01:38:49,690
Villas Boas case which happened in

2357
01:38:54,600 --> 01:38:51,940
Brazil the so called space right where

2358
01:38:57,900 --> 01:38:54,610
he was induced into intercourse

2359
01:38:59,850 --> 01:38:57,910
allegedly with an idiom female the

2360
01:39:02,130 --> 01:38:59,860
understan thing is that I was living in

2361
01:39:04,260 --> 01:39:02,140
Phoenix that time and the next day on

2362
01:39:06,540 --> 01:39:04,270
Saturday Jim and coral are in son of a

2363
01:39:08,400 --> 01:39:06,550
burro we're going to come see me but I

2364
01:39:10,440 --> 01:39:08,410
didn't know what they wanted to tell me

2365
01:39:12,150 --> 01:39:10,450
about and I had a weird dream the night

2366
01:39:13,950 --> 01:39:12,160
before they came that a friend and I

2367
01:39:15,990 --> 01:39:13,960
that was involved in UFO studies with me

2368
01:39:18,240 --> 01:39:16,000
bill Sanford and I dreamed that we were

2369
01:39:20,670 --> 01:39:18,250
up on Camelback Mountain and a UFO

2370
01:39:22,740 --> 01:39:20,680
landed we approached the side of it and

2371
01:39:24,360 --> 01:39:22,750
inside we heard something I'd never

2372
01:39:29,730 --> 01:39:24,370
thought of in relationship to the

2373
01:39:31,740 --> 01:39:29,740
objects inside we could hear this these

2374
01:39:34,050 --> 01:39:31,750
kind of weird sounds and I thought

2375
01:39:36,120 --> 01:39:34,060
that's crazy well I I woke up from the

2376
01:39:39,030 --> 01:39:36,130
dream kind of astonished and and made

2377
01:39:41,100 --> 01:39:39,040
notes of it well in the morning well

2378
01:39:42,990 --> 01:39:41,110
that afternoon Jim and Cole Aaronson of

2379
01:39:44,610 --> 01:39:43,000
a pro came to visit me and they said we

2380
01:39:46,770 --> 01:39:44,620
have an amazing case it's never been

2381
01:39:49,050 --> 01:39:46,780
published they told me about the Antonio

2382
01:39:51,360 --> 01:39:49,060
Villas Boas saying well here's the catch

2383
01:39:53,400 --> 01:39:51,370
point we're like they got to the point

2384
01:39:56,580 --> 01:39:53,410
where he described sounds that he heard

2385
01:40:03,090 --> 01:39:56,590
these aliens making between each other

2386
01:40:05,610 --> 01:40:03,100
and she said it was exactly what we had

2387
01:40:07,950 --> 01:40:05,620
heard in the dream inside of the the

2388
01:40:10,170 --> 01:40:07,960
craft and I don't think that proves

2389
01:40:11,700 --> 01:40:10,180
anything but I thought it at least

2390
01:40:14,370 --> 01:40:11,710
perhaps suggests some kind of

2391
01:40:16,080 --> 01:40:14,380
premonition or I don't know but anyway I

2392
01:40:18,570 --> 01:40:16,090
thought you might enjoy hearing this

2393
01:40:21,630 --> 01:40:18,580
story about something that suggests

2394
01:40:23,880 --> 01:40:21,640
something related to psy ESP or

2395
01:40:25,440 --> 01:40:23,890
something was going on about a case that

2396
01:40:26,140 --> 01:40:25,450
we had no knowledge that I had no

2397
01:40:28,030 --> 01:40:26,150
knowledge of

2398
01:40:31,570 --> 01:40:28,040
until Jim and pearl came and told me

2399
01:40:33,850 --> 01:40:31,580
about it Wow Wow he may have so many

2400
01:40:36,840 --> 01:40:33,860
great stories always always love hearing

2401
01:40:39,730 --> 01:40:36,850
from you in especially of the contactees

2402
01:40:42,070 --> 01:40:39,740
yes oh yeah I don't consider myself one

2403
01:40:44,610 --> 01:40:42,080
of those but back in the 50s when we had

2404
01:40:46,720 --> 01:40:44,620
some amazing experiences we got we got

2405
01:40:48,580 --> 01:40:46,730
classified into that and for a while I

2406
01:40:50,350 --> 01:40:48,590
considered myself into it but we

2407
01:40:53,710 --> 01:40:50,360
realized that was a much more objective

2408
01:40:55,870 --> 01:40:53,720
way to interpret the a the object

2409
01:40:59,050 --> 01:40:55,880
encounters that we were having but

2410
01:41:01,180 --> 01:40:59,060
anyhow it's nice to talk to Steve and

2411
01:41:03,640 --> 01:41:01,190
I'd better let you up because I know the

2412
01:41:05,860 --> 01:41:03,650
shows about to end and let you close up

2413
01:41:07,660 --> 01:41:05,870
but and George speaking and sharing this

2414
01:41:10,120 --> 01:41:07,670
with you well a real pleasure ray nice

2415
01:41:12,970 --> 01:41:10,130
to talk to you thank you all right take

2416
01:41:16,060 --> 01:41:12,980
care all right wow that was great

2417
01:41:18,040 --> 01:41:16,070
yeah yeah yeah I listen to a lot of the

2418
01:41:23,410 --> 01:41:18,050
shows and I think you had him right in

2419
01:41:24,750 --> 01:41:23,420
your bio when you acid it yeah yeah yeah

2420
01:41:26,950 --> 01:41:24,760
so we have just a couple more minutes

2421
01:41:31,030 --> 01:41:26,960
probably not a good idea to take another

2422
01:41:33,100 --> 01:41:31,040
call at this at this point so we were I

2423
01:41:34,810 --> 01:41:33,110
was basically asking you what you

2424
01:41:37,300 --> 01:41:34,820
thought that the beings might be which

2425
01:41:39,580 --> 01:41:37,310
is just of course speculations it's

2426
01:41:42,760 --> 01:41:39,590
always good to hear you know other

2427
01:41:45,700 --> 01:41:42,770
people's you know thoughts on what might

2428
01:41:47,530 --> 01:41:45,710
be going on I still feel as though that

2429
01:41:50,520 --> 01:41:47,540
you know I've done this show now for oh

2430
01:41:53,650 --> 01:41:50,530
my goodness of coming up on eight years

2431
01:41:56,350 --> 01:41:53,660
in the fall and I feel as though I know

2432
01:41:59,250 --> 01:41:56,360
probably less than I did when I started

2433
01:42:02,860 --> 01:41:59,260
or about the same I should say you know

2434
01:42:07,120 --> 01:42:02,870
definitely not an expert and but anyway

2435
01:42:08,590 --> 01:42:07,130
are you available for anyone if someone

2436
01:42:11,410 --> 01:42:08,600
would like to contact you in any type of

2437
01:42:15,460 --> 01:42:11,420
way and I'm on Facebook

2438
01:42:17,500 --> 01:42:15,470
you know Steve Ward and I do they can

2439
01:42:19,330 --> 01:42:17,510
hear me on Mac Maloney's military

2440
01:42:21,640 --> 01:42:19,340
x-files as a correspondent every week

2441
01:42:24,130 --> 01:42:21,650
I'm doing my own show every two weeks

2442
01:42:26,550 --> 01:42:24,140
now the paranormal UK radio network

2443
01:42:29,080 --> 01:42:26,560
called the high strangeness factor and

2444
01:42:31,660 --> 01:42:29,090
so yeah that'd be that would be great

2445
01:42:34,060 --> 01:42:31,670
excellent okay well thank you so much

2446
01:42:36,250 --> 01:42:34,070
it's been a real pleasure well thank you

2447
01:42:39,070 --> 01:42:36,260
this has been a lot of fun all right all

2448
01:42:39,939 --> 01:42:39,080
right take care all right all right

2449
01:42:42,060 --> 01:42:39,949
everyone so

2450
01:42:45,370 --> 01:42:42,070
that's it for the show this evening and

2451
01:42:47,819 --> 01:42:45,380
thank you so much for listening now I'm

2452
01:42:51,310 --> 01:42:47,829
pretty excited next week we have a

2453
01:42:55,299 --> 01:42:51,320
Charlie faults charlie was one of the

2454
01:42:58,239 --> 01:42:55,309
four from the allagash abduction case

2455
01:43:00,609 --> 01:42:58,249
and he's a great guy I'm really looking

2456
01:43:02,229 --> 01:43:00,619
forward to seeing him I want to thank

2457
01:43:04,689 --> 01:43:02,239
everyone that helps out with the show

2458
01:43:07,620 --> 01:43:04,699
and I want to also thank supporters of

2459
01:43:09,989 --> 01:43:07,630
the show I couldn't do without you and

2460
01:43:18,130 --> 01:43:09,999
again we'll be back next week and